Ok, I know the oil topic has been covered numerous times, with varying opinions and a host of information. I need to ask a more specific question. Here goes:

My bike has 2000 miles on it. I'm about to do an oil change. I would like to EVENTUALLY run my bike on fully synthetic oil. It has worked for my car, and irregardless of opinions, I'm already sold on synthetic oils. When I do put synthetic oil in my bike, I will be using MCF (motorcycle formula) Amsoil 10w-40 High Performance Oil. This oil does not have moly or anything that will cause clutch slippage. So, I definitely want to EVENTUALLY use this oil.

With that said, here is the core of my question. Some people think you should wait till a bike has about 5,000 miles on it before you switch to synthetic oil. Some people say you can go ahead and start using synthetic oil at the FIRST oil change. My question is should I wait till my bike has 5,000 miles on it before I switch to synthetic oil, or should I (will it be ok to) go ahead and switch to synthetic oil with this oil change while my bike has 2000 miles on it?

Moto, sorry, Chris... :D With the auto oils you need to pay attention and stay away from the ones with friction modifiers, cause your bike has a wet clutch. I don't like reading :wink: so I just stick with the motorcycle specific oils. It's especially easy for me to pick up the Honda Race Oil (Black bottle Red cap) when I'm at the Honda dealer picking up my Honda Oil Filter. Call me lazy but it isn't like I change the oil that much so a few extra $$ now and then doesn't play for me. Are there oils better than the Honda oil...probably but what are they optimizing? 1 or 2% on the full scale... I'll do just fine but think any Motorcycle specific oil will work great and Amsoil has a great reputation. 4000 miles and my oil is still just as clear and thick as the new stuff in the bottle (and it spends much more time above 6k than below). Will change after the next track day, no worries.

I've been an Amsoil guy for a few years now and was a personal dealer for a little while. I think it's some of the best oil you can buy and run it in my '93 Mazda RX-7 on both road and on the track. (For those of you who don't know, rotary engines are MUCH harder on oil than piston engine are.) I have never heard ANYONE say anything bad about anything Amsoil related. I know you're planning on running Amsoil anyways, but i just wanted to say...good choice. ;)

As for your question, i too have heard both ways. I would say there's nothing wrong with switching now *or* later. Amsoil states that is it ok to switch to their synthetics after even a few hundred miles...but i've heard other people say otherwise. Personally, i'd trust the R&D that Amsoil has done and that they would not make this statement if it would put them in a difficult situation. But you won't be hurting the bike in the least if you just use 'regular' oil that was intended for it.

I would say do whatever makes you feel good...there's really no wrong decision here. But personally, i'm going to plan on changing the oil at the beginning and at the end of every riding season just so it will have fresh oil for the summer miles and use, and then again so that all the contaminants that are accumulated and suspended in the oil over the summer will not settle during winter storage. I think this is more important than whether the oil is synthetic or not. And while i do think Amsoil's synthetic may be slightly superior to dino oil, i'm not sure if i want to pay the extra $$ since i'm going to be changing it out that often to begin with. Hope that helps some...

No real differance in moto and auto oil now a days they meet the same specification just don't use anything that has moly in it. If the oil says energy conserving it has moly. Moly is only present in lighter oil anyways, 10w-40 and up doesn't have moly so no worries. Don't worry about brand X vs. brand Y all these oils have to meet certain standards so that is what you should be looking for. Oil companies always says their oil is better, better then what? if all oil are better then others then where is the bad oil?? Just sayin better is not good enough. They have to be tested to meet certain specification standards hence the oil rating systems.

the manual recommends engine oil:
API service classification SG or higher (automotive specs)
JASO T 903 standard:MA (motocycle specs)
Viscosity SAE 10w-40

*Both these auto and moto specs are equivalent of each other, so basically they are the same thing, execpt that the moto oil cost twice as much. The moto oil industry want you to think that moto oil is better, this may be true 20 years ago but now a days is just marketing propaganda and consumer ignorance. The auto classification of SG where you are looking for is the second letter G of the S rating or anything higher (rating is in alphabetical order) is what you want. If you look at most of todays auto oil they are rated at least a couple steps above SG, the higher the better. Only the really cheap generic oil has a lower rating, but many of those are also rated at least at SG. If you can find a old auto oil bottle from say 20 or so years ago they were rated at lower then an SG rating.

As for synthetic it is only worth it if you want to prolong your oil change interval, synthetic last longer against use. You can change from petro to synthetic and back all you want. Consider how many miles you'll be putting on in a year to determine which oil to use. If not much no reason to use synthetic cause you will have to change oil at least every 6 months anyways no matter how little miles you put on. Honda recommends 8k (or was it 4k) miles or six months which ever comes first. The reason being is cause with time and use there will be acidic (or was it alkalitic) build up that collects in the oil breaking it down no matter if it is synthetic or petro. This is the same reason whey if a bike is stored for winter you should change your oil before storage and after removal from storage. If you ride a lot say more then the 8k (or 4k) miles in less then 6 months then you could use sythetic to prolong that milage interval until the 6 month time period. Synthetic seems to last twice as many miles as petro.

By the way the '06 owners manual says 8k miles in the maintence chart but 4k miles in the text on the back, so some where in there the info was not up dated. I'll be conservative and go with the 4k mile interval or 6 months which ever comes first

I use auto oil 20w-50 cause here in the BayArea it never gets that cold to warrant a thinner oil. Plus I never ride if it is below 50* anyways, I'm a pussy.

An educated consumer is less likely to get gyped. Marketing has people believing that the more you spend the better you feel. So buy what you wish.

...Plus I never ride if it is below 50* anyways, I'm a pussy.
Takes a real man to admit such a thing... :D and I'm right there with you!

Dabinche, lots of good stuff and half to agree with you. I've heard/read that synthetic isn't really synthetic as much as it is just Highly Refined base stock (standard oil) such that it only includes the really long chain molecules and fewer impurities. SO I can't see any issues between swapping between the two.

And sorry Chris for missing the point of the original post, to the point, I can't see any issue to using higher quality oil ever and changing more often can hurt nothing but the wallet.

In reality, I don't think it would be a big deal if you go full synthetic.

I usually put a few thousand with regular oil first to break it in. Then I swtich over. Mostly just to make me feel better. Whatever you do, your bike will still go down the road. No big deal.

It doesn't matter when you do it but if the bike has always used regular oil than you need to use a flushing oil before using the full synthetic to get the best effect from the engine.

From link below: "If you've been driving around with mineral oil in your engine for years, don't switch to synthetic oil without preparation. Synthetic oils have been known to dislodge the baked-on deposits from mineral oils and leave them floating around your engine - not good. I learned this lesson the hard way! It's wise to use a flushing oil first."

Flushing oil link (http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html#flushing)

One other note from that link: "If you do decide to change, only go up the scale. If you've been running around on synthetic, don't change down to a mineral-based oil - your engine might not be able to cope with the degradation in lubrication. Consequently, if you've been using mineral oil, try a semi or a full synthetic oil. By degradation, I'm speaking of the wear tolerances that an engine develops based on the oil that it's using. Thicker mineral oils mean thicker layers of oil coating the moving parts (by microns though). Switching to a thinner synthetic oil can cause piston rings to leak and in some very rare cases, piston slap or crank vibration."

I think this has gotten into exactly what Chris *didn't* want it to be... But what the hey.

I pretty much agree with everything dabinche said (except i don't know too much about auto vs. moto oils, so i can't really say about that).

Synthetic has two main benefits: longevity and increased ability to withstand high temperatures. Yes the wear characteristics are better with synth oils than with dino, but mostly because, as stated above, they are more refined. But this difference in lubrication is marginal and really only makes a difference in high temp applications, where synthetic retains it's properties longer without being effected by high temps.

Synthetic oil is very beneficial in high temp situations such as race engines, track bikes, and turbo charged applications. (Hot turbos can actually cook dino oil unless you're careful because they get so hot relative to normal engine block temps, whereas with synthetic it is much less of a concern.) For any regular street engine (bike or auto) the only real benefit is longevity (increased drain intervals). But if you plan on changing your oil frequently anyway...well, then it doesn't really matter all that much.

But if it makes you feel better knowing you're giving your bike the best...by all means, do your thing. It definately won't hurt it. ;)



Oh, and yes, you can change back and forth from synth to dino as much as you want...it just decreases the benefits of synth as it's always diluted with the residual dino.

And as for the concern about leaking seals...that's really only an issue for older engines or engines with many miles on them. I don't think anyone on this forum has a bike with so many miles on it that that would be a concern.

...Plus I never ride if it is below 50* anyways, I'm a pussy.
Takes a real man to admit such a thing... :D and I'm right there with you!

Dabinche, lots of good stuff and half to agree with you. I've heard/read that synthetic isn't really synthetic as much as it is just Highly Refined base stock (standard oil) such that it only includes the really long chain molecules and fewer impurities. SO I can't see any issues between swapping between the two.

And sorry Chris for missing the point of the original post, to the point, I can't see any issue to using higher quality oil ever and changing more often can hurt nothing but the wallet.

And no rain riding either unless I get caught in it...too much of a puss

Yeah this is true about synthetic not being real synthetic. A few years ago Mobil sued one of the other oil companies (think it was castrol) based on the fact that the other company saying that their oil is synthetic but is only highly refined dino oil. So the judge ruled in favor of the other oil company side and said that the word synthetic is for the most part used as a marketing tool only and does not describe what synthetic oil is. Since then all the oil companies have come out with their version of synthetic oil which is really only a more refine dino/petro oil. Not sure if Mobil 1 is still real synthetic oil anymore or just highly refine dino oil. There are only a few oils that are real synthetic like redline and amsoil synthetic.

The main difference between regular oil, fake synthetic, and real synthetic is the molecule chain. Regular chain is short so it breaks down much faster. While the fake and real synthetic is long so it takes longer to break down. Real synthetic last about twice as long, milage wise, as regular oil. Fake synthetic is just about as good as real synthetic.

One other thing with regular oil is that they are getting more and more refine and better additives are being added in this is why their oil rating is getting better and better over time.

I think this has gotten into exactly what Chris *didn't* want it to be...

You are very right. I was afraid this would happen. Nobody can read and follow instructions. Simple question, requiring a simple answer...and nobody can do it.

I'm erasing my posts from this...making a mental note to not post anymore simple questions...

In reality, I don't think it would be a big deal if you go full synthetic.

I usually put a few thousand with regular oil first to break it in. Then I swtich over. Mostly just to make me feel better. Whatever you do, your bike will still go down the road. No big deal.

THANK YOU STEVE! You are the only one who just answered the simple question.

Why did you delete the original post, that's not going to help anyone if someone in the future has a similiar "simple" question and wants to know the answer.

Why did you delete the original post, that's not going to help anyone if someone in the future has a similiar "simple" question and wants to know the answer.

LMAO....if someone in the future has a similar simple question...I wish them luck getting it answered...

Hey, i thought my first answer addressed the intended question pretty directly. It wasn't a short answer, but was a fairly complete and direct answer that communicated some of the reasons for my opinion. (Even though i didn't give a specific 'you should do ____' because i don't think there is one right answer for this question, i was hoping to help you with your own personal dilemma.) But i apologize if i assisted in the hijack of your thread in any way.


Edit: But i don't think your deleting your posts helped anything in any way. Simply expressing your frustration and redirecting the thread would have gotten you a lot further, IMO...as well as helping anyone who reads this thread further down the road. We're all grown-ups here...we can work these things out. (I hope... :roll: )

but it really wasn't a simple question

LMAO....if someone in the future has a similar simple question...I wish them luck getting it answered...

Hell, I still don't know what the original question was because you formed a "simple" question so complicated.

And sorry Chris for missing the point of the original post, to the point, I can't see any issue to using higher quality oil ever and changing more often can hurt nothing but the wallet.

Ahhh, golly gee williker. Who the F* woke up on the wrong side of the F*ing bed? Did you actually show your wife that thread? Sleeping on the couch that uncomfortable? :lol:

Mr. MotoGrumpyPantsFan, maybe get your gear on, go for a ride and get that happy feeling back again, maybe it's just withdrawals from not being on the bike for a few hours!!! :lol:

And next time you post a simple question, let us know what answer you want. Save a bunch of bandwidth for Alex. :D

And don't act like anyone here owes you anything. Instead why don't you appreciate that someone took time out of their day to comment on your thread because they are trying to help you in the most self-less way possible (even if they didn't actually help).

If not these people may fail to help you when you really need it.

now that I think about it the perspectives were different for different folks.

The person who asked didn't know much if anything at all about motor oil so his perspective was that it was a simple question but someone like me that has more knowledge of motor oil saw it as not such a simple question.

And no I still can't answer the question any more simply as I had unless you ask me to TELL you what to use. Even then I still need more info then what was given.

Ahhh, golly gee williker. Who the F* woke up on the wrong side of the F*ing bed? Did you actually show your wife that thread? Sleeping on the couch that uncomfortable?

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I admit it. You guys should know that I tend to be moody, and this is one of those times. I extend my apologies. Sometimes I don't stop and think that people are just trying to help me. Yes, I actually showed my wife that thread...lol...and no I did not sleep on the couch." Man, if you only knew how laid back my wife is...


And don't act like anyone here owes you anything. Instead why don't you appreciate that someone took time out of their day to comment on your thread because they are trying to help you in the most self-less way possible (even if they didn't actually help).

If not these people may fail to help you when you really need it.

Right you are...nothing more I can say. I can see that you Steve will be the one to call me out when I get moody and help me get a grip on myself. I do appreciate that people took time out to try and help me, I just wasn't thinking of it in those terms until I read your reply there.


now that I think about it the perspectives were different for different folks.

The person who asked didn't know much if anything at all about motor oil so his perspective was that it was a simple question

You are right. I did think it was a simple question, and that is probably due to the fact that I don't know very much about oils etc.


I have reposted my question, and tried to make it a little more "simple" and concise. What I mean is I tried to explain where I'm coming from a little differently than I had originally.

I'm sorry guys. I don't mean to sound unappreciative. The bad thing about being online is that you only have words to read. When we read, I think we sort of "imagine" the tone and feeling the poster is trying to convey. Sometimes when I post, the way I put my words together implies a very different tone and feeling than what I mean to imply.

I'm going to try and remember this for future postings. I extend my apologies to all of you that have tried to help me. I am very appreciative for all of you who are helping to make this forum the premier Honda 599 forum for the U.S.

Nothing more I can say. I hope this has clarified things, and rectified my moodiness.

No problem, man. It happens to all of us sooner or later...

Glad to see everyone working things out instead of resorting to name calling the second we get our feelings hurt. So let's get this thread back on track, eh? :wink:

Chris, just one more thing... please change the name of the thread from "Delete" to whatever it was before.

PS. Lesson learned. I'm sure we all appreciate the fact that you know how to admit a fault and appologize.
:thumbsup

PS. Lesson learned. I'm sure we all appreciate the fact that you know how to admit a fault and appologize.
:thumbsup
Again... Strike two and Steve is watching you... :wink: :lol:

Again... Strike two and Steve is watching you... :wink: :lol:

hehe...uuummm...what was strike one??

Doesn't Honda make oil for motorcycles... :rantOh, and I'd wait until 5000 mile to switch

Switch now

been running mine on fully synthetic no probs the cbr engine is bullet proof tbh!!

Doesn't Honda make oil for motorcycles... :rantOh, and I'd wait until 5000 mile to switch

Yes. I used it in my last change. I think it's dino, but it's all I could lay my hands on at the time. GN4, it's called, for what it's worth.