Just so we can scare some people... :run

Since I lived on a farm for a few years and could go shooting whenever i wanted, I quickly found a new hobby in guns. Here is a quick overview of my small, but beloved, firearms.

Olympic Arms AR-15 carbine (http://www.olyarms.com/?rootView=browse&view=dtl&ids=ML-2)
-w/ 8-20x40mm Leupold scope
-used for long range plinking

Mossberg 590 12GA shotgun (http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/firearms/shotgun/m590.html)
- matte black w/ pistol grip + full stock
- used for skeet shooting and home defense

Sig Sauer P220 (pistol) (http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=6&productid=94)
- w/ night sights
- used for target shooting and backup home defense

Ruger 10/22 (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=1168&return=Y)
- .22 caliber, great for squirrel and racoon hunting
- my first rifle
- one of the most reliable rifles ever made

So there ya go. As you can see, i tend to lean more towards target shooting and a slight paranoia about home defense than anything else. Plus i just like a gun that looks tough... :wink:

Desired guns include Armalite AR-50 and anything H&K. 8)

Sometimes scaring people "just enough to make them think a little" can be a good thing, following the whole "an armed citizen is a good crime deterrent" logic trail.

The AR-15 and 10/22 are honeys in their own rights. Ruger makes some sweet pieces (M77 Mark II, 10/22, GP-100, Redhawk/Blackhawk, and P-series). I've long wanted a Mini-14, but haven't had the funds in the playtime budget.

Can't comment on the Mossberg, though I've heard good things about it. I do have some experience with the Remington 870 series, and I'm well pleased with a couple of those. My brother-in-law has good things to say about the Sig pieces, having considerable experience with them. I haven't gotten to spend time with one yet.

One of the next pieces I'm stewing over is a nicely sized pocket piece. The Bersa Thunder and Kel-Tec P3AT come into discussions frequently. The P3AT is more easily concealed and removed, and I've read/heard that the second-generation ones are much improved over the first-gen.

We have to be able to defend our own homes and families, as we can't always rely on others to do it for us. Responsible target shooting (no, not just the shooting of responsible targets :nerd ) is a good hobby (though sometimes not inexpensive) and a good way to keep the skills tight.

Similar to your farm history, I'm from a somewhat rural area where having a weapon around is the norm, rather than the exception, and doesn't freak out the neighbors. (Unless they're transplants from gun-fearing areas.)

"Know what you're aiming at, know what's behind it, and make the shot count," they say.

HK, Armalite, LMT, Sig, Beretta, Remington, Ruger...these are in my collection. I have an application in to the ATF to register one of my LMT lowers for full auto conversion and to register as an SBR. Just waiting on there response.

Definitely a gun enthusiast here...

HK sub 40 here my brother has a sig sauer p229 i think... figured a thread like this might start. :P

I have

2 X SKS

.22 pistol

2 X .22 rifles

and a 410 shotgun

Just for hunting paper targets and self protection.

Since everyone is listing what they have...maybe I"ll be more clear about mine.

HK usp .45 Tactical
HK uspc .45
HK uspc 9mm
Remington 870 Express Mag
Remington Model 700 .308
Sig p229 .40 cal full stainless
Sig p220 .45 full stainless
Para-Ordinance LDA Carry .45 Singlestack
Beretta Stainless 92F .9mm
Smith & Wesson Model 636 .357
Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm
Beretta CX4 Storm .40
Bushmaster LEO marked AR15 A2
Armalite M15A4 with Stainless Match Barrel
CMMG 11.5inch Upper on top of LMT Sopmod Lower (will be registered as SBR and full auto as soon as it's approved by the ATF)
CMMG M4 Upper on top of CMMG Mod4 lower
Ruger Mini-30 7.62X39 Stainless

An array of optics and tactical mods for the AR's, laser sights on the Sig 229, laser sights on HK Tac .45, Pentax optics on the Remington 700.

And, as soon as I get the funds, I'm going to pick up a Beretta CX4 Storm .45

I'd love to own a few Kimbers...but every time I go to look at some dealers always have high dollar prices. As nice as Kimber might be, they're not worth the local prices...atleast not worth it to me. Wouldn't mind having a Wilson Customs .45 too...but don't have the money...and I'm not serious into matches..so I can't justify spending the money on a Wilson

I have a pellet gun... fucking squirrels.

my list

HK USP .40
Remington Model 11 Safari
S&W .38 Revolver
Colt .32 automatic (blued)
M1
.22 Tear gas gun
misc. semi-auto and Lever action .22's

would like to get an AR or mini 14 sometime soon

my list

HK USP .40
Remington Model 11 Safari
S&W .38 Revolver
Colt .32 automatic (blued)
M1
.22 Tear gas gun
misc. semi-auto and Lever action .22's

would like to get an AR or mini 14 sometime soon

Don't waste your time on Mini-14. Been there, done that. Presently own a mini-30 that I'm looking to get rid of. Ruger mini's are ok for what they are. They are hit or miss though. Barrel problems, mechanical flaws, unreliable mags with bad misfeeds.

If you're looking for .223 and it seems like you are...invest your money in something like an AR. HUGE aftermarket, gobs of new USGI mags that function and feed flawlessly. Easy to replace parts. Variety of manufacturers. Tried and true proven platform. I'm telling you, you will NOT regret an AR. While you're at it, come on and join us at www.AR15.com where you will find a wealth of knowledge. The site also has sub directory for other rifles, handguns, etc.

I'm a newbie to motorcycles...but I'm far from being new to guns...especially tactical weaponry.

my list

HK USP .40
Remington Model 11 Safari
S&W .38 Revolver
Colt .32 automatic (blued)
M1
.22 Tear gas gun
misc. semi-auto and Lever action .22's

would like to get an AR or mini 14 sometime soon

Don't waste your time on Mini-14. Been there, done that. Presently own a mini-30 that I'm looking to get rid of. Ruger mini's are ok for what they are. They are hit or miss though. Barrel problems, mechanical flaws, unreliable mags with bad misfeeds.

If you're looking for .223 and it seems like you are...invest your money in something like an AR. HUGE aftermarket, gobs of new USGI mags that function and feed flawlessly. Easy to replace parts. Variety of manufacturers. Tried and true proven platform. I'm telling you, you will NOT regret an AR. While you're at it, come on and join us at www.AR15.com where you will find a wealth of knowledge. The site also has sub directory for other rifles, handguns, etc.

I'm a newbie to motorcycles...but I'm far from being new to guns...especially tactical weaponry.

thanks for the advise, I’d really like an AR. however the choices are a bit overwhelming (different manufacturers and such) but here in Indiana guns flow like water so I should be able to find something easily.

You definitely need to read a little before buying one. Of course, you could just go purchase a Bushmaster or an Armalite for another 150 bucks if you just want an AR15 that you don't plan on doing much with. I'm not knocking Armalite or Bushmaster as I own an AR from both of them.

But it would serve you well to run over to AR15.com and read a little.

I would personally buy a seperate lower and upper. CMMG makes some great stuff. LMT makes some great stuff as well...but there are varying opinions on LMT for a number of reasons.Personally I'd stay away from DPMS and Rock River. They tend to have varying colors and don't match up well sometimes with other manufacturers in the even that you ever want to change the uppers later on.

I'd say Bushmaster, LMT, CMMG. Just personal opinion though. Personally, I'm very fond of CMMG's stuff and so are alot of other AR enthusiasts.

I've heard good things about Bushmasters...especially if you're just wanting a decent AR for a good price.

And i second that about the Ruger mini's. My friend had a Mini-30 that he loved, but consistently had problems with. Not so much functional problems, but he couldn't seem to get it sighted in. It wasn't the most accurate gun, even for med range.

Glad to see i've struck a nerve here. Awesome collection, GP. Even though they're technically cheaper (well...usually), firearms can still be a VERY expensive hobby. Mostly because they're like chips, you can't have just one. (Unlike bikes...) That and ammo is still more expensive than gas (unless you're just shooting a .22 or dont shoot very often). :roll:

M1A, glass bedded, super match custom barrel by Krueger

HK P5M (something, I forget the last number now). Purchased in 1985. Was standard Polizei issue at the time. Squeeze to cock.

Ruger Redhawk (.44 mag) 7.5" barrel

SW .38 special, nickel plated

Remington 870 12ga shotgun

NRA master in highpower rifle, NRA high master in .22 rifle indoor.

M1A, glass bedded, super match custom barrel by Krueger

HK P5M (something, I forget the last number now). Purchased in 1985. Was standard Polizei issue at the time. Squeeze to cock.

NICE. If you ever decide you want to get rid of the M1, let me know.

I've heard good things about Bushmasters...especially if you're just wanting a decent AR for a good price.

And i second that about the Ruger mini's. My friend had a Mini-30 that he loved, but consistently had problems with. Not so much functional problems, but he couldn't seem to get it sighted in. It wasn't the most accurate gun, even for med range.

Glad to see i've struck a nerve here. Awesome collection, GP. Even though they're technically cheaper (well...usually), firearms can still be a VERY expensive hobby. Mostly because they're like chips, you can't have just one. (Unlike bikes...) That and ammo is still more expensive than gas (unless you're just shooting a .22 or dont shoot very often). :roll:

Right on about the Bushmaster. If someone is just looking to pick up a good all-around AR, and doesn't plan on competition, or modifying it for hard-core tactical use, you can't go wrong with a Bushy. Off the shelf for $750 you can get an A2 or A4 with M4 feedramps and it will shoot dead on all day long. Plus, if you ever decide to drop a different upper on it, most of the better companies uppers match Bushy lowers...I think because there are so manyu Bushy AR's out there companies decided they're better off to match them in color.

Ruger Mini's...what else can be said about them...you get what you pay for. You buy a $400 rifle...that's exactly what you get. You're right about their accuracy. That's what I was referring to when I said they are hit or miss. I've fired a few that were dead on...others were complete piles of useless metal. But, for $400, you can have a "cute" .223 rifle to play around with.

As for me, I'm sticking to building AR's...

NICE. If you ever decide you want to get rid of the M1, let me know.

Every so often I think about selling it, then I come to my senses. :)

I think there's only about 1500 rounds down that barrel. When you compete a barrel is typically good for about 7K-9K rounds before you need it replaced. And they aint' cheap!

Randy Krueger turned that barrel for me back in 1991 when I still shot competitively. In Wisconsin you either used "Boots" Oberymeyer or Randy Krueger. Both have made barrels for US Olympic teams so I trust them. :)

I once shot a 200/15X with that weapon at Lodi, WI for the long range championships. That was the 1,000 yard any rifle/any sight match. I ended up winning that match with iron sights on an M1A. That always pisses the bolt gunners off particularly when they're scoped up! Every once in awhile the gods smile on you. At one point in that match I had ripped off 9x in a row and I turned around and noticed a crowd of about 20 shooters behind my spottter. Kind of funny and flattering.

I’m officially scared of every one of you :wink:
I pray none of you work in our fine Postal sysem... :lol:

I’m officially scared of every one of you :wink:
I pray none of you work in our fine Postal sysem... :lol:

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a ER and Cardiothoracic Intensive Care nurse...and do some minimal work in molecular biology research (I have a undergrad in Mol. Bio as well). Presently in Nurse Anesthetist grad school.

Since everyone is listing what they have...maybe I"ll be more clear about mine.

HK usp .45 Tactical
HK uspc .45
HK uspc 9mm
Remington 870 Express Mag
Remington Model 700 .308
Sig p229 .40 cal full stainless
Sig p220 .45 full stainless
Para-Ordinance LDA Carry .45 Singlestack
Beretta Stainless 92F .9mm
Smith & Wesson Model 636 .357
Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm
Beretta CX4 Storm .40
Bushmaster LEO marked AR15 A2
Armalite M15A4 with Stainless Match Barrel
CMMG 11.5inch Upper on top of LMT Sopmod Lower (will be registered as SBR and full auto as soon as it's approved by the ATF)
CMMG M4 Upper on top of CMMG Mod4 lower
Ruger Mini-30 7.62X39 Stainless

An array of optics and tactical mods for the AR's, laser sights on the Sig 229, laser sights on HK Tac .45, Pentax optics on the Remington 700.

And, as soon as I get the funds, I'm going to pick up a Beretta CX4 Storm .45

I'd love to own a few Kimbers...but every time I go to look at some dealers always have high dollar prices. As nice as Kimber might be, they're not worth the local prices...atleast not worth it to me. Wouldn't mind having a Wilson Customs .45 too...but don't have the money...and I'm not serious into matches..so I can't justify spending the money on a Wilson
You scare me most of all (full auto...really...why?)
I don't have that many pairs of pants! :lol: More than one South American country is envious of your inventory :wink:
I may not understand but I'll defend your right to own all of them...however, I'm stil scared.

Have:
HK p7m8
HK usp 9 (gonna get rid of)
Benelli nova h2o + 28" barrel for skeet/trap
Marksman wrist rocket for when there is no more ammo

Had:
HK uspc 9
Sig 228

Want:
Benelli super nova w/pistol grip
HK p2000 (to replace the usp 9)

Want but could never have here in CA:
ak-47
HK mp5k
HK psg1

You scare me most of all (full auto...really...why?)
I don't have that many pairs of pants! :lol: More than one South American country is envious of your inventory :wink:
I may not understand but I'll defend your right to own all of them...however, I'm stil scared.

Full auto for the shear sake of having ONE fully auto AND short barreled rifle.

Envious of my collection?? Geez, I thought my collection was rather UNremarkable. I know guys that have virtual arsenals in their house. Most of my stuff has been accumulated over the past 8-9 years. Hell, I've actually sold more guns than I presently own.

You really do NOT want me to list the guns I have PREVIOUSLY owned but sold sometime in the past.

There is something about going out to the range and firing for a few hours that is such a stress relief...much like riding motorcycles. My local range will not be seeing as much of me now though...since I have my Horner...

My local range will not be seeing as much of me now though...since I have my Horner...
God bless Mr. Honda! :thumbsup

Sig Saur P230.... Happiness of another sort :D

Chris, Vespa special made just for you...

http://re2.farm1.static.flickr.com/127/323360127_c3644536e4.jpg

Chris, Vespa special made just for you...

http://re2.farm1.static.flickr.com/127/323360127_c3644536e4.jpg

ooooooooohhhhhh aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh....where can I get one???

Damn! If I had that no one would cut me off.

Or they would be sorry! 8)

I only have a Bersa Thunder 380 , Glock 23 , and a 12 ga. shotgun.... not much but I can get the job done if i need to :D

I keep seeing this bright red dot sweep across my monitor :( anyone know what it is?

I only have a Bersa Thunder 380 , Glock 23 , and a 12 ga. shotgun.... not much but I can get the job done if i need to :D

How's that Thunder, Mech? That's the one I keep reading about when I go looking for info on the Kel-Tec P3AT. I think I really want the K-T, but the Bersa gets mentioned a bunch.

Pros? Cons? "Pocketability?" Got opinions?

I'm looking for a nice pocket piece. I love my Nine, but it's far to heavy to be a routine carry unit. Great for carrying in the truck; not so good in a jacket. That's where the K-T comes in -- less than a pound fully outfitted, and goes into (and comes out of) a pocket with little drama.

What can you recommend?


---------

As David said, Go Hokies!

Alright, DavidVTHokie...what's that gun in your avatar??? If you got some cool weaponry, share the love!!! 8)

Motorcycles and guns. Why am I not surprised? OK, my favorite gun is my S&W 686 with 4" barrel. There is nothing like a revolver, if you ask me.

I love the bersa its wonderful for a person with small hands as myself I dont have any complaints :thumbsup

Motorcycles and guns. Why am I not surprised? OK, my favorite gun is my S&W 686 with 4" barrel. There is nothing like a revolver, if you ask me.

Used to have a 686 with a 6" barrel. I really liked that revolver. .357 is a great caliber. Come to think of it...I sort of miss my old 686.

Well my guns are Glock 21-- .45 and the Glock 31-- .45 and I have the RockRiver Arms LAR-15 Pro-Series TASC with the EOTech 552 and I use them all for work each and every day. We are only approved to carry Glock as far as handguns area concerned. I can say one thing about the Glocks they really are good guns. I have put several thousand rounds through them and the have never failed like others I have seen :x . If you need a duty weapon with minimal care Glock is the gun.



Angelo 8)

.357 is a great caliber.
I agree. In addition to the 686, I have a Python with 6" barrel. It has a smoother action than the Smith, but the 686 is stainless and I prefer the 4" barrel. It feels more balanced to me.

Not that I have anything against autos. My favorite auto is my Sig 225. I don't think they make that model any more. What can I say, I have small hands. I like single column mags.

.357 is a great caliber.
I agree. In addition to the 686, I have a Python with 6" barrel. It has a smoother action than the Smith, but the 686 is stainless and I prefer the 4" barrel. It feels more balanced to me.

Not that I have anything against autos. My favorite auto is my Sig 225. I don't think they make that model any more. What can I say, I have small hands. I like single column mags.

Agreed with everything you said, except for the favorite auto. I used to be partial to Sig, but HK became my favorite back in 1998. Now, I have not purchased to very much from them in the past 2-3 years, and I think their service dept has been getting a little shoddy, espeically since their sales market has increased like it has over the past several years. But, the USPC-.45 and Tactical USP .45 that I bought back in 1998 (my first experience with HK and purchased both pistols the same day) have both functioned FLAWLESSLY since day one. No FTF's since the day I bought them, no jams, no anything. Those two pistols sold me on HK. I've recently taken a liking to Para-Ordinance, but you have to take a new pistol from them and then have it fine tuned for it to be worthwhile. Once it's fine tuned, it's one of the nicest pieces of metal you'll ever hold in your hand. Most people just don't feel like you should have to "fine tune" anything after paying the prices Para asks.

I haven't had much experience with Springfield XD series, but I'm seriously considering looking into them. They just remind me to much of a Glock (I so hate Glocks). I've never liked the way a Glock feels in my hand.

To each his own I guess. One thing is for sure, IMHO, you can not go wrong with a Sig, and their customer service dept has always been great to work with for me.

ive got a few remington 870 express mag a henry 22 lever a marlin 30/30 a new england arms 20 gauge and a savage 17hmr

I have a Henry .22 lever too. Got it at Walmart for like $175. That's probably less than wholesale. Walmart...you got to love/hate them. Anyway, when I got the gun home I noticed a flaw in the bluing so I called Henry in NY and they sent me a replacement part, no questions asked. Good customer service and it's a fun plinking gun.

mine was perfect and shoots graet :bow

were did you get that wind screen?

My Henry rifle shoots great too.

The windscreen is a Givi A305 from Twisted Throttle:

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2353

i might half to get one :ride

anybody ever shoot this bad boy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJSZs-euZU

(hope the link works, sorry if a repost)

anybody ever shoot this bad boy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJSZs-euZU


That's just Nuckin Futz!!! :shock:

I don't normally advertise my meager collection, but what the hell.

Short guns;
heritage rough rider .22/.22mag convertible revolver. (bought as a trapping gun and to shoot blanks to train the dog.
Taurus PT99 satin nickel .40S&W. Thump of a .45 with a higher capacity like a 9mm.
Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull w/a 2x leupold. Same energy on paper as a .30/30 Win. Never seen a .30/30 leave a hole like that in a deer!

Shotguns;
H&R Pardner .410 youth. for the kids.
Ithica M66 super single 20ga. Lever break single shot. Pretty cool. My first gun.
Mossberg 835 3 1/2" 12 ga.
Stoeger Condor 12ga O/U. I live on a budget and couldn't affort the Browning...OK???
Model 59 Winchester - Winlite. steel sleeved fiberglass barrel and alloy receiver. Another cool gun in an odd sort of way.
Franchi 20ga auto. My daughters gun.

Rifles;
model 15mn Marlin .22 (youth model)
model 25mn Marlin .22mag (my 2nd gun, graduation present)
H&R Pardner youth .243 w/ 1 1/2 x 4 1/2 BSA Catseye scope. (Daughters)
Marlin MR7 .270 Win. Baush & Lomb Elite 4000 2.5 x 10. Can't find a load that will break MOA in a 5 shot group. Never found a load that shot worse than 1.5MOA 5 shot group either. Everything from 90gr. HP's to 150gr BT's. It just shoots everything about the same. :)

Hey Mechanic 77:
Based on the Dead man Walking video I'm not sure I want to ride with you, but maybe we can shoot up some clay birds sometime.

Whoa now!!
Ruger 9mm police carbine & Sig 226.
http://www.pbase.com/desmoface/image/74486316.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/desmoface/image/74486369.jpg

Steve
05 st3
00 sv6fity

How ya likin' that Ruger 9?
I do like the Ruger goods I've had opportunity to work with. Haven't gotten my hands on one of those, though.

I like the ruger a lot. I traded a kimber 45acp for it back in 97. As soon as I picked up the ruger I fell hard for it. Feels really nice and is soooo much fun to shoot..almost no recoil as it's only a 9mm...suprisingly accurate, too.

Typical Ruger, it's very beefy and can handle +p rounds with ease...I do occasionally have a problem with it once in a while as the slide will lock open when there is still one round left in the magazine..I think this is a problem with the magazine, though (I only have one magazine for it, it uses the ruger 9mm auto pistol mags, I think its the p9?).

Everyone that I have let shoot it falls in love with it..check one out if you get the chance..

Steve
05 st3
00 sv6fity

I have a pellet gun... fucking squirrels.

Haha me too!

I have a customer that is a Nurse Anesthetist. Makes very good money..Good luck in your studie's and congrat's.

Steve
05 st3
00 sv6fity

I’m officially scared of every one of you :wink:
I pray none of you work in our fine Postal sysem... :lol:

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a ER and Cardiothoracic Intensive Care nurse...and do some minimal work in molecular biology research (I have a undergrad in Mol. Bio as well). Presently in Nurse Anesthetist grad school.

I always wanted one of these but could never justify the expense:
www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58TAC (http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58TAC)

This looks like it could be fun:
www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58OSWNFA (http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58OSWNFA)

Of course, a Galil or Valmet would be nice too.

Steve
05 st3
00 sv6fity

I always wanted one of these but could never justify the expense:
www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58TAC (http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58TAC)

This looks like it could be fun:
www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58OSWNFA (http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58OSWNFA)

Of course, a Galil or Valmet would be nice too.

Bah!
I just want a Garand.

Well, this certainly looks like it wouldn't suck:
store.southern-ammo.com/spm1asoii308.html (http://store.southern-ammo.com/spm1asoii308.html)
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-13081306378516_1935_27621123.jpg

Steve
05 st3
00 sv6fity

you all have guns down there or what? Some pretty heavy artillery. We have gun control laws in Canada. I personally think they are a pile of BS and do not do anyhting to stop gun crimes. Its illegal to have handguns, fully auto's, modifieds, etc.

I own a number of hunting rifles. 12 guage baretta, 303's, etc. But don't have any personal protection guns. IE handguns etc.

I had my tires slashed on my car last week. Along with everyone on my rd. prob would of shot at that Bas%$rd if i could get away with it.

scum makes me sick.

We have gun control laws in Canada. I personally think they are a pile of BS and do not do anything to stop gun crimes.

I'm sure we can cover you up with the bumper-sticker quotes.
* Guns don't kill people; people kill people
* My guns have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's cars have.
* Shoot not to kill, but to stay alive.
* Gun control means hitting your target.

... and on, and on, and on.

I think you'll find differing opinions if you poll folks from around our contry. Here in the southeaset, we're a bit more open to the idea of someone having (and using) a gun. New York and Cali seem quite uptight about it.

On a more personal note: I only carry when I think my environment will warrant doing so. Others in my family have one within reach at all times (their environments warrant it -- animals, criminals, etc). My wife, on the other hand, is more likely to carry a knife. Or to just kick the sh*t out of somebody/something -- she's tough like that. 8)

As the legend goes, a couple of guys tried stealing gas from my father-in-law's truck some time ago. He saw 'em and fired a shot into the ground nearby. The next day, a the fellas approached my wife and said, "your dad wouldn't really shoot somebody, would he?" Durr! :crazy His intent was to scare them away from his truck. It worked. Dumbasses were stupid enough to identify themselves by asking the question.

Not sure where I stand on the whole thing. I know the gun control up here is garbage. I'm totally against it. hunting rifles should not be part of any gun control legislation.

but.... i think if guns can't be used for hunting and are obviously people killers - then they could be controlled in some fashion.

I do believe and agree with all your bumper sticker quotes 100%. But having a gun in the home does increase your chances of shooting someone you know.

hard to put your full thoughts about guns in a paragraph or two.

oh... at the end of the day I believe that one should be able to feel 100% completly safe in your own home. So if the police can't provide that for you ..... then you should be able to do it yourself.

Here in NL its getting worse now with crime and stuff. People breaking in while people are home and everything. Thats because our jsutice system is essentially protecting the criminals. Homeowners have not got a leg to stand on and the theives only get a slap on the wrist... its a joke and the criminals know it. Its set up so no one is responsible for their own actions any more. You can blame your actions on anything and get off with it. Makes me sick really. "If it wasn't for drugs i'd be such a good person" - yeah right....

- still bitter about haveing my tires slahsed and my cousins home get ramsacked.

Colin

Okay, fellas and gals, I'm tossing it out for debate: I've been wanting a Kel-Tec P-3AT for some time, and come darned close to buying one. It'd be pretty much a "glovebox piece," something far more pocketable than my big fat Ruger 9mm. I love my 9, but some days it's just too heavy to lug around comforatably.

After hearing rave reviews on the Kel-Tec P-32 from a couple of my friends who've had them, I decided to have a look at the P-3AT. It's pretty much the same "economy" concept as the P-32, but in a slightly larger caliber. It's gone through a full "generation upgrade" since hitting the market, and I'm aware of some of the complaints about first-generation units.

Last night I got an email from a friend that led me off to CDNN Sports, Inc, out of Texas. (Anybody heard of them? dealt with them?) This place has an out listing the P-3AT for a nice price. Then right beside it was Kel-Tec's PF-9 for just $20 more.

So now I'm debating. Twenty bucks gets me a slightly larger piece (width difference = 1/10 inch; height difference = 8/10", and length difference = 6/10"), and about 50% more weight (12.7 vs 8.3 ounces, empty), which is somewhat contrary to the original goal: easy carry. But it also gets me "ammunition similarity" -- that is, I dont' have to stock a new (to me) type of ammo as I would with the P-3AT.

I haven't done significant surfing on this PF-9 yet, but I've got plenty of time for research. I'm in no particular rush to buy.

So the questions are these:
1) Given just this brand, would you pick up P-3AT or PF-9, and why?
2) Given other brands, and without spending two to three times the coin, what other models might you suggest? And have you got hands-on experience with such models?
3) What other opinions would you offer?


Let the debate begin... :D

Links: www.kel-tec.com/p3at.html and www.kel-tec.com/pf9.html

Well, with the push for the new weapons ban, "H.R. 1022" there is a bit of a scare in the tactical weapons world. Everything is being bought up.

So, guess what I did? As if I don't have enough Ar-15 builds, I went and bought myself 4 LMT completely built lowers, 4 cmmg stripped lowers, and 2 noveske stripped lowers. Woohoo...will have plenty of lowers for future builds now.

http://www.kisermunitions.com/LMTm4CTRambi.jpg

Check out this goon's recent maneuver. I can cover you up with rant about this guy, but I've been doing it so much around here I figure nobody else will want to hear from me. Nonetheless, my personal Roanoke Times Peeve-O-Meter has been over 97% for two weeks.

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/wb/xp-108160

And don't forget to visit the comments section to have a look at the feedback.
http://blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/columns/comment_on_trejbals_column_12.html
Set some time aside for it, if you intend to read 'em all.

And this, too.
http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?s=6221877

Needless to say, this guy has taken a lot of heat about his irresponsible journalism. And I think he deserves some more, but that's just my opinion. I hope he decides to move back to Oregon and take up a new non-public career.

GRRRRRRRRR!! :evil:

I wanna galil.

05 st3
00 sv6fity

Edited. Pics taken down for personal reasons.

I just thought of something that would be really funny. Let's find out where Moto lives. Then all of us should put on ski masks and run around outside his house one night when it's really dark just to see what happens.

:popcorn

I think I know what would happen! He'd pump some lead into our fannies from his high-dollar firearms, haul our bodies away in the Land Cruiser, and then go out for a nice leisurely ride! :lol:

You guys are funny. I've just always been an avid gun collector. I've always loved blackrifles (ar-15's), sbr's, anything with DIAS, HK's, etc.

I just enjoy building up an AR-15...that's all.

Well, my CLEO has signed off another Form 1 for me. Time to send it all in to the ATF and get ready to start building another SBR. This one is going to get a silencer on it as soon as I get my stamp from the ATF.

This is so much fun...

I'm seriously thinking about sending in a Form 1 for a RDIAS. I just can't decide if I want to deal with all the paperwork. Do any of you guys have a RDIAS?

I think I know what would happen! He'd pump some lead into our fannies from his high-dollar firearms, haul our bodies away in the Land Cruiser, and then go out for a nice leisurely ride! :lol:

Uh huh...uh huh...

Might I ask if this is your posting from another forum in reference to Sabre Defense:

www.AR15.com[/url]
]The last build has a 16" middy 1:7 chrome lined Sabre Defence barrel (freefloated BTW), honestly I am kind of disapointed. First of all the FSB is canted to the right side. Not enough to affect reliability, but it is to the point where you can see it with the naked eye. Doesn't really matter as this gun wears an ACOG anyway. I plan on taking the stock FSB off and putting on a low profile block on and mount some flip up front sights on the end of my rail instead.

From an accuracy standpoint it is ok, the biggest disapointment is that it won't stabilize a 77gr SMK. Radway Green will give me 2" 8 shot groups with this setup but the Blackhills 77gr SMK load will struggle to get inside 4".

In all fairness this gun has a stock CMT FCG which is horrible and will be replaced with a RRA 2 stage match trigger. I am sure that the trigger has a huge role in the grouping, but honestly, my stock 1:9 Bushy HBAR with standard handguards shoots better.

Is that yours? I saw the name up at AR15.com while I was browsing last night and thought it might be you.

Doesn't sound like your toys are exactly cheap...does it? 8) 8) :D :D

Sorry, pal, it's not me. You say my name is in use on AR15.com? I'll have to check that out. :shock:

The AR is an item I've got access to, but certainly not as frequently as I'd like to. The closest I can come to that is my trusty Crosman air rifle, box-stock with no mods. Not exactly high-dollar. 8)

Good idea on taking the pics down... the conspiracy theorist in me has often wondered how many crooks, goons, and overzealous government agencies look for postings like that and have the capacity to make things difficult for those who post them. :x

Similarly, though somewhat off the topic, I think you probably read my recent rant about the local paper publishing names and addresses of concealed carry permit holders. Here's a conspiracy theory that sprang from that (and no, it wasn't my idea): what if your employer happens to surf the list and find you've got a carry permit and decides you are [suddenly] a risk to the organization. Virginia is an at-will state, meaning the employment arrangement can be terminated at any time by either party. Do we see some potential here for unnecessary firings based on employer nosiness? I think so, boys and girls.... :wink:

Anyway, Chris, thanks for thinking of me. Sorry I'm' not your man on this one. (Can ya send me a link to that posting? I'd like to learn more.)

Anyway, Chris, thanks for thinking of me. Sorry I'm' not your man on this one. (Can ya send me a link to that posting? I'd like to learn more.)

Thought it was you. I pulled down the pics because I have recently found them posted elsewhere on another gun forum, so someone has stolen my pics. I also have posted them at a few other forums, so there is no way for me to know where they were stolen from. I've taken them down at all my sites, and have contacted the admin of the site where they are now posted without my permission.

Here is a link to the thread that I thought was you posting...

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=317839 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=317839)

Enjoy!

Wow. That's just too coincidental.

The guy appears to be built like me (assuming that's him in the photo), and I do have two electric heaters like the one on his floor. And a shirt like that. And my name's Dan. But I've got no beard, so it's definitely not me. And he's posted some 17K+ times... man, I don't have that kind of time.

Curious what that arabic-looking text ( كاف ) just above his avatar says...

Thanks for the link, though. Lots of learning to be done on that site!

I was wondering if anyone here can recommend a good and reliable CCW 9mm or under. I recently read about the Kel-Tec PF-9, it looks interesting, I like the small size. I'd like to find something pocketable, something that preferably doesn't require a holster.
Any thoughts?

I don't have experience with the PF-9, but I do like my Kel-Tec P-3AT. I looked at PF-9, and held out for the P-3AT because it is physically smaller. Not a bad little piece, and quite pocketable. I'm tempted to get a PF-9 as well. Not horribly accurate, but nicely suitable for some particular purposes.

One of the best things about Kel-Tec is their customer service. Cruise the Web for info on the P-3AT and you'll find a number of people who are very happy with service from K-T on first-generation P-3AT models.

Whatever you buy, spend some significant time at the range with it and get used to how it behaves, particularly with double-action only (DAO) pieces. The P-3AT really spooked me on the first few shots, as the empties tend to go straight up when ejected. Not so bad on the way up, but they can be a bit unnerving when they start bouncing off your hat.

The P-3AT has a very long. very deliberate trigger pull. That's by design, and is a good thing for something that might be carried in a pocket. I'd imagine PF-9 is the same.

"Pocketability" also suggests you'll want to make sure you have proper permits and training for concealed carry. No need getting in trouble over improperly exercising your Second Amendment right.

How "pocketable" are you looking for? Are we talking pants pocket, or coat pocket? That answer may have some bearing on which pistol you end up choosing. [As will your budget.] With pants pocketing in mind, have a look at DeSantis' holsters -- the Nemesis model seems to be a nice thing, both holding the weapon in place in the pocket and limiting the effect known as "printing."

Many people will offer many opinions. Mine is just one of 'em. Take it for what it's worth. :)

Don't mean to interrupt or thread-jack... but can any of you guys help me? I don't know a lot about guns but I inherited a 1996 Ruger Vaquero a while back and have no need/use for it. Here's the specs, can any of you tell me what it's worth on the market?

Ruger Vaquero
1996
Single-action revolver
.45 caliber
7" barrel
Polished Stainless
Rosewood grips

I believe it's never been fired. I can't find any signs of markings or powder or smell residue. I think these ran somewhere around $495 retail and I'm wondering what I can reasonably expect someone to give me for it. I'd like $375 +/- but I don't know if that's unrealistic. Includes the case, wrapper, manuals, etc. Thanks a lot!

Don't mean to interrupt or thread-jack... but can any of you guys help me? I don't know a lot about guns but I inherited a 1996 Ruger Vaquero a while back and have no need/use for it. Here's the specs, can any of you tell me what it's worth on the market?

Ruger Vaquero
1996
Single-action revolver
.45 caliber
7" barrel
Polished Stainless
Rosewood grips

I believe it's never been fired. I can't find any signs of markings or powder or smell residue. I think these ran somewhere around $495 retail and I'm wondering what I can reasonably expect someone to give me for it. I'd like $375 +/- but I don't know if that's unrealistic. Includes the case, wrapper, manuals, etc. Thanks a lot!

If it's polished stainless I don't think $375 is asking to much. Actually, IF it's never been fired, I would probably aim to get $400 for it personally. The going price for a new stainless Ruger Vaquero on Gunbroker is between $450-500.

The problem is there's not really a lot of interest in them in the gun market. Your best bet is probably to get on Gunbroker or see what your local dealer will give you. I wouldn't take any less than $375 personally.

Cool, thanks. That helps.

There's a gun show here this weekend, but I don't know if I should even bother trying to unload it there... I'm sure I'll get ridiculous lowball offers.

Does the the Kel-Tec P-3AT shoot like a Seacamp?, that little thing feels like a firecracker exploding in your hands! Also, the Seacamp feels a little too short, my bottom two fingers hang under the clip, making it feel like you could lose grip of the gun.
When I say "pocketable", I guess I also mean discreet, and comfortable. Something that I can wear to work. A shirt and tie piece.
I have a berretta 22 cal. that I like, it's pretty small, but unless I'ts VERY clean, it will jam often. I want to be able to count on it if (God forbid) I need it. Is the Kel-Tec prone to jamming?
I have larger pieces, but they can be uncomfortable, and a little heavy and bulky.
BTW, I've had a carry permit for many years now, and belong to a club with some very nice indoor and outdoor ranges. :D

I can't compare it to a Seacamp, Opti. I've never gotten my hands on a Seacamp. No idea. The K-T is a tiny critter, and my little finger does hang off the grip. The grip extension (a big, whopping $7) helps offer a solution to that problem, and the magazine extension ($14) helps too.

I can send you some photos of this K-T next to a ruler if you'd like.

This K-T is nicely pocketable in your context. For me, it's a back-pocket rider, as I wear jeans most of the time. In nicer pants (shirt-and-tie) you may want to go with something like the Nemesis or SuperFly pocket holsters to avoid printing.

Many owners of the first-generation P-3AT report FTE/FTF conditions. The second generation (2G) updates were to have taken care of that. So far (knock on wood) I've experienced neither case with my 2G piece.

Membership in a club with indoor and outdoor ranges: how nice!

Cool, thanks. That helps.

There's a gun show here this weekend, but I don't know if I should even bother trying to unload it there... I'm sure I'll get ridiculous lowball offers.

You may get a reasonable offer. I sold my old 1911 at a gun show (to a licensed dealer) for a fair price. But like Chris said, I don't know who's buying SA revolvers these days.

You may get a reasonable offer. I sold my old 1911 at a gun show (to a licensed dealer) for a fair price. But like Chris said, I don't know who's buying SA revolvers these days.
Yeah that's the big problem. If it were a decent 9mm or .40 semi, I'd probably keep it and go to the range every so often for kicks. But this isn't something I'm really interested in. Frankly I plan on selling it and getting a PS3.

:)

I don't really know how this may help you sell your firearm, but .45 single action revolvers are the only handguns that the cowboy mounted shooters use.
http://www.cowboymountedshooting.com/

I could care less about horses (but I love shooting). My wife took me to an event, and I was very impressed. They shoot black powder blanks at balloons while riding full tilt on horseback. Then they turn around, holster and draw a second firearm, either another revolver or a lever action rifle, and shoot the second set of targets.
vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iihCQlPFIMk

Definately worth checking out if they have an event near you.

I don't really know how this may help you sell your firearm, but .45 single action revolvers are the only handguns that the cowboy mounted shooters use.


While single action revolvers, especially in .45 are nice to have for a collection, here is the reality of firearms:

The average gun owner owns maybe a shotgun and one pistol. Both are usually kept for personal defense beside the bed or in a similar place. A .45 SA revolver is just not a good choice for such use for the average gun owner. While some of us may fire as well (and likely better) with a SA revolver (not to mention the shear reliability factor), the truth is they are not a wise choice for someone who is not well seasoned with firearms, especially revolvers.

And so, the market for SA revolvers is not very big. When someone does choose to use a revolver for personal defense they usually choose a .38, .357 (not a good choice for said purpose) or .22 (also not that great of a choice for said use).

This topic could be hashed and looked at and debated, but I've tried to offer the BASIC premise for why the market is not so great for SA revolvers. I personally prefer the .45 caliber load and I've got 2 in my bedroom within arms reach of my bed, they are not revolvers. I also love my SA S&W .357 686 I've had for close to 15 years now.

Of course, when SHTF I'm grabbing one ofmy Class 3 NFA AR's with a 7.5" barrell on full auto with a 200 round drum. If you escape my house after said rifle is drawn on you then you either: 1. shot me first and I'm already dead (not likely to happen) or 2. have literally been protected by God himself (not likely either).

Ok...I'll get back out of the ongoing conversation...[/i]

How hard is it to get licensed to own a fully auto?

And what is a good AR-15 to start out with? I was looking to get one a few months ago just to have some fun, but then realized I know absolutely nothing about them or where to find out anything about them...

How hard is it to get licensed to own a fully auto?

And what is a good AR-15 to start out with? I was looking to get one a few months ago just to have some fun, but then realized I know absolutely nothing about them or where to find out anything about them...

There are a couple of routes you can take depending on your local and state laws. Luckily my local Sherrif signed off for me to own a "machine gun." Then you have to submit the appropriate paperwork to the NFA with a $200 check to register the lower. They will cash your check immediately whether they approve you or not. They legally have a full year to approve or dissapprove your application. If approved they send back your app with a $200 tax stamp. Similar paperwork is neccessary for SBR's, AOW's, silencers, etc. It's really just a big load of paperwork and getting various signatures. HOWEVER...there is a big long list of do's and dont's from that point forward. You also basically give the ATF and FBI the right to search your home from that point forward as long as the weapon is still registered to you. It's something I would make sure I would familiarize myself with legally before doing it. You should atleast read the ATF's handbook. I keep a copy at all times. I've got a copy on PDF...let me see if I can upload it for you...hang on.

Can't get it uploaded. You can download it directly here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/0607nfa_handbook-rev.pdf

Oh...once you get signed off for a machine gun and your paperwork is approved by the ATF, you only need to come up with somewhere between $10,000-15,000 to purchase a RDIAS (registered drop in auto sear).

There are a few other options, but this is the usual route. Get on AR15.com and browse around under the NFA section.

Ew... I think I'd better hold off on the RDIAS at least until I graduate. There are cars that I need and can't afford that cost less than that... I guess I'll be OK with a semi-auto AR-15...

And really, fellas. If you go opening up a full auto on an intruder, you're gonna have a hell of a mess to clean up. And some "'splaining" to do. And a very good chance that a number of rounds ended up in places you didn't want them to. (Yup... let that last one sink in for a minute... there you go... now you know what I'm saying.)

Not that I wouldn't want a full-auto.... :) (Though I don't want one badly enough to give "The Man" Carte Blanche to search [and destroy] my house at will.)

I also love my SA S&W .357 686 I've had for close to 15 years now.
That's a typo, right? The 686 is double action.

I think the age of the revolver -- be it SA, DA, DAO or whatever -- has passed. You could say that I'm stating the obvious. I realized that revolvers are history when I couldn't find one anywhere in Grand Theft Auto.

I also love my SA S&W .357 686 I've had for close to 15 years now.
That's a typo, right? The 686 is double action.


Yes..it was a typo. I had become accustomed to typing SA so much in that post that I just did it without really paying attention to what I was doing. I figure the average gun enthusiast knows anyway... 8) 8)

I think the age of the revolver -- be it SA, DA, DAO or whatever -- has passed. You could say that I'm stating the obvious. I realized that revolvers are history when I couldn't find one anywhere in Grand Theft Auto.
I dissagree. I find a good revolver to be ultra reliable, not to mention cool. 8)
Try the Ruger SP101 snub nose 38spl. VERY accurate. Totally reliable. Excellent feel, and enough power, but not so much as to make it difficult to shoot. Can be dirty as heck and still fire.
And if one can't hit his target in five shots, he should invest in a good pair of running shoes!

I think the age of the revolver -- be it SA, DA, DAO or whatever -- has passed. You could say that I'm stating the obvious. I realized that revolvers are history when I couldn't find one anywhere in Grand Theft Auto.
I dissagree. I find a good revolver to be ultra reliable, not to mention cool. 8)
Try the Ruger SP101 snub nose 38spl. VERY accurate. Totally reliable. Excellent feel, and enough power, but not so much as to make it difficult to shoot. Can be dirty as heck and still fire.
And if one can't hit his target in five shots, he should invest in a good pair of running shoes!

The question is not whether a revolver is reliable, there is no question about that. The question is whether or not there are many more people that prefer a revolver to an autoloading polymer frame pistol. I'm afraid to say this is not the case. The age of the revolver has definitely passed for the reasons I cited in my above post.

Sure, many of us would reach for a revolver first b/c we know what can happen with a FTF in an autoloader. When your life is at stake, you don't risk FTF (though this is a rare occurence with a good autoloader nowadays and some of us can clear a chamber faster than the next guy can pull a trigger...but the average one pistol gun owner is not experienced enough with weaponry to be able to do so).

All in all...in the GRAND scheme of things, revolvers are becoming a thing of the past. Sad to say...but that's the reality of it all.

I can agree SA revolvers are defensively a thing of the past. Obviously, there are different guns and different calibers for different situations. I agree semi-autos are more popular, and while a SA revolver may not be the best choice for self defense, I still think a small DA revolver with 38spl +p hollows is a very good home and carry choice. For me, FTF is a HUGE factor. I guess that's all I was trying to say.

I guess it's late in the thread, but I'll throw in my two cents. I had a Springfield XD 9mm for a while. I liked it OK. I don't really care for the feel of a lot of polymer pistols. I'm not interested in carry, so I don't care about the lightest, smallest thing. Metal frames are just fine by me. I really like the feel of SIGs, but they are pricey.

Actually, I'd love to have a variety of firearms, as I enjoy all types of shooting. A nice SIG pistol, a good shotgun for clays, and maybe an AR or something like it. Then I could do triple-gun tactical challenges. WOOHOO! Now that's a good time.

There's a really nice outdoor firing range just 20 minutes north of my house. Some guys up there made nice metal knockdown targets and set up a tactical range on weekends. They even made doors, walls, and window frames. They would setup an environment, and then they would go through with a timer and everything. They let me join them a few times and I had an absolute BLAST!

I just have too many other things to spend money on right now, like my education, my wife's education, bills, food, gas... oh yeah... and motorcycles!!!

Ah well... all my book learnin' should pay off one day, then I can git me some good ol' shootin' irons!

vonD

:popcorn

Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a gun nut, and I don't generally know a lot about guns, but I do know one thing:

THIS GUN IS F'N AWESOME.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s&eurl

Try stealing HIS wallet!!!

Check out the AA-12 automatic shotgun. It lacks the portability of that fine piece of hardware but is actually a full auto maching gun that fires shot gun rounds. A little too much for home defense, but boy would it be fun to plink with that.

I haven't found anything that compares to a shortened M4 assault rifle in acuracy.
though in certain situations the oozi has saved my life, and i never went on a mission with out a sig saur p228. this i would very much recomend (if you can access this as a civilian)
mainly due to my release from the service i don't ever want to touch a gun again. maybe some of you guys can understand this...

... i never went on a mission with out a sig saur p228. this i would very much recomend (if you can access this as a civilian)

The P228 is not in Sig Sauer's 2008 catalog, though previous years' versions are certainly available on the market.

I have a sig p-228 in my friends gun safe. A little thick on the grips for my smallish hands but with a two handed grip I rocked X rings with that piece all day. Shooting 9MM is cheaper as well, I see no reason to shell out for .40 cal ammo especially if you are going to own and practice with one gun.

Guns and motorcycles! It doesn't get any better! :D

Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a gun nut, and I don't generally know a lot about guns, but I do know one thing:

THIS GUN IS F'N AWESOME.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s&eurl


When things get nasty... while walking your dog or taking out the trash?!?!!?!? That raccoon will be dead as a doornail.

Here yah go Moto my M&P


http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/547147ee705e98f53.jpg



http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/547147ee705e4b4eb.jpg


Many Many more are on the way.... Im actually going to pick up my new lower next weekend

http://www.fullyautomaticairgun.com/

looks like tons of fun, not available yet, but the video looks cool. Full auto fun without the hassle of the BATF.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Garand.jpg

M1 Garrand
I sure wish I could get my hands on one of these!

M1 Garand
I sure wish I could get my hands on one of these!

They're out there... ya just gotta look a little. :thumbsup

Bit of a large caliber and heavy for plinkin' and not much else you can do with it. Great pedigree however.

Bit of a large caliber and heavy for plinkin' and not much else you can do with it. Great pedigree however.

There's no varmint too small for a 30-06 round in the kill zone or between the eyes...

Looking at a couple of different handguns. My problem (or gift) is that I'm a southpaw. This means two things. First, I get hit with a lot of ejected casings. Second, all the controls are on the wrong side of the gun.

These two little gems are on my list though. The first is a Kimber Pro CDP II .45, the second is a Sig Sauer P220, Second Gen.

If you're going .45, I don't think you can go wrong with either of those. I've heard good things about the Kimbers, but I usually will prefer a Sig over almost anything.

For grins, I just tried to manage my Glock in my left hand... I don't know how you lefties do it. :wtf

Go SIG! :thumbsup

A Glock, Carlitos? Um, well... um... right. :thinking
(Just jabbing at ya, C... my little brother's got one. I'm no fan of it.)

Haha, I wish I could tell you. I'm digging the 1911 style guns because of the ambidextrous thumb safety. I'm not sure though how I feel about carrying 'cocked and locked.' Seems like both of these brands get nothing but rave reviews. Have had the chance to hold both and they both were begging me to take them home. Luckily I managed to give them back so I could make a decision. Price difference is there, but what's a few hundred if it's really what you want, you know?

A Glock, Carlitos? Um, well... um... right. :thinking
(Just jabbing at ya, C... my little brother's got one. I'm no fan of it.)

Zip it, Viffer-lover. :wink:

I have a compact .40 that I love, but one of these days, I'm gonna get one of these:
http://www.precisionweapons.com/cartgenie/Images/Large/Item_Glock_30.jpg

A Glock 30 .45 ACP. It's a little fireball. :mrgreen:

Who you callin' Viffer-lover... Viffer-lover! :lol2:

I told Mrs Vthoky that because I turned 40 last year the Man Rules stated that I was to buy myself a new .40-caliber. Her response? "I don't care." (Good!)

Following that idea, I told her that in five years I get to buy myself another one -- a .45. Her response? "Vthoky, I don't care."

So I thought to myself, "Self," (because we all know that's what I call myself), "let's carry this idea one notch further."

"You know, Sweetie, five years after that... I gotta buy a .50-cal."
"Yeah? So? You know I don't care."
"Cool. I want a Barrett."
"WHAT!?!??!!?!!" :shock:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I took my Boy Scout Troop out to Clute, TX for a gun safety campout. While we do believe in teaching gun safety, it was also a good excuse to fire off a few hundred rounds. The .50cal rounds cost too much to fire but one of our guys loads all his own rounds. You'll also notice my son, 11 at the time, was able to fire it.

Another pic of my son, this time firing a Mauser. We were dialed out at 100 yards. The trees behind our targets had a crappy day.

A Barrett cartridge sitting on a Washington! Your guy must be reloading! It takes four or five Washingtons to feed a Barrett .50 these days. (Yikes!)

Nice job on letting the Scouts try out the .50 and the Mauser. That's an experience they'll not soon forget. (I still remember my time in Rifle & Shotgun Shooting merit badge class.) :thumbsup

Edit: Just noticed the "Be Prepared" on the face of the muzzle brake. Darned nice!

I wondered who would catch that engraving. Good eye!

My brother in law has a Kimber .45 that quite is nice. It is his only .45 that I can shoot comfortably. That is because it doesn't have the staggered clip and I can wrap my hand around the grip.

I love that taste of gun powder after a day at the range.

I do also love a nice deep inhale on the firing range.
Speaking of being on the firing range, has anyone here ever stood near a .50cal when it goes off? I stood about 6 or 7 feet to the right of the muzzle and I was taken back by the shockwave I felt in my sinuses and chest! Hella cool feeling. Oh, yes, and then the inhale... ahhhhhh.

Well now that I am getting a house... I'm thinking I might pick a little something up in case the worst happens. I'm not so concerned about when I am not around - that's what insurance is for. But if I (and hopefully a hot girl) are upstairs and I hear broken glass I want something I can use.

Being that I'm not a real big guy... I've found 9mm to be my "sweet spot". A while back I shot an assortment and I didn't mind .40 too much but accuracy was iffy, I couldn't hit shit with a .45 (I'm exaggerating but I was definitely struggling) and I was deadly with a nine. It was a Ruger, but I've heard the CZ 75 SP-01 is unreal.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/CZ_75_SP-01.jpg/750px-CZ_75_SP-01.jpg

I don't shoot much, and it's not a real passion of mine. Should I go budget and practice enough to stay proficient or get something nicer and see if I grow into it, so to speak?

Generally speaking, guns are sortof like bikes: You need to get something you are comfortable with now and will be ready and willing to use. If you don't like a .45 either because of discomfort, inaccuracy, or the expense of feeding it, don't strain to make it work.

A lot of it depends on the gun. A real heavyweight .45 can kick a lot less than my polymer-frame .40.

But all the "you don't need a Hayabusa"-style arguments apply here. If you are accurate with a 9mm, go with it. If you can't accomplish what you need to with 15 rounds of 9mm, chances are you were screwed anyway.

On brand, I can think of two schools of thought:

1. You go cheaper because you won't likely use it enough for reliability to be an issue. A defendable argument, but not my cuppa tea.
2. You go balls-out because you will likely only have one gun, ever. I like this school better, but then I'm not the one writing the check.

For option 2, I like Glocks, Sigs, and Rugers, and in that order, but that's just me. The G19, P229, and P89, respectively, are all nice.

When you get it, you should get some experienced buddies to shoot with you and give you pointers - and practice often early on. Get to know your pistol like a girlfriend. In the end, "you fight like you train" is absolutely true.

I'm excited for you. We might just make you a Texan yet. :mrgreen:

I'd rather get something good in case I like to shoot routinely than buy something "just to get me by" and then down the road want something better.

I'd probably stick to 9mm... even though some people call it a chick gun. Whatever... it can kill you all the same.

Although I don't shoot, like... ever... I seem to be able to step into it pretty easy. I'd get killed in football, basketball, hockey, etc... but anything involving precise hand-eye coordination is in my wheelhouse. I've also been blessed with good vision so hitting targets with a gun is pretty easy. Getting them in a nice cluster is the hard part. Once I get used to the action it's not too bad though. Like I said - just as long as I can control the caliber.

Couple points:

1. I'd prefer not to drop $900 on something primarily used for home defense. But I don't want a crapper, either.

2. We have Target World here... but their selection isn't too great. Couple Sigs, H&K's, Rugers, etc. If I want to fire a CZ before I buy it, how do I do it?

3. Probably won't run out and buy something tomorrow... but there is a Goodman Gun Show in Sharonville Oct. 3 and 4 and that's where I unloaded my old Ruger Vacquero. I was thinking I might be able to score something there.

*shrug*

Yeah they get a pretty good shock going.
Nothing quite like what you feel when you shoot one of these though.
And I also love the smell of powder in the morning.

http://cfs3.tistory.com/upload_control/download.blog?fhandle=YmxvZzg1MDk3QGZzMy50aXN0b3J5 LmNvbTovYXR0YWNoLzAvNTcuanBn

.50 cal shoots an approximately 1&3/4 oz projectile in the 2500 to 3000 fps (750 - 900mps) range with a max effective range of approx 1800 meters.

155mm (6.1") howitzer fires an approx 95lb projectile burning up to max of about 16lbs of powder to achieve a max range of 14 miles with standard round and 18 miles with a rocket assisted projectile.

The picture shows firing a very light charge. With the heaviest charge of powder the barrel will slide back in the carriage as far as the end of the dark (greased) portion of the barrel and you can feel the shockwave in your internal organs while wearing kevlar body armor.

Ahhh, the good old days when I got to play with all the cool toys and got paid for doing it.

I'd probably stick to 9mm... even though some people call it a chick gun. Whatever... it can kill you all the same.

Word. Ask anybody who's ever been shot by a 9mm how they liked it.

Getting them in a nice cluster is the hard part.

Getting them in a nice cluster is the important part! :-P

1. I'd prefer not to drop $900 on something primarily used for home defense. But I don't want a crapper, either.

The Sigs are not cheap. A Glock should be less than $600; a Ruger less than $500.

2. We have Target World here... but their selection isn't too great. Couple Sigs, H&K's, Rugers, etc. If I want to fire a CZ before I buy it, how do I do it?

I am blessed with a local indoor range that has dozens of guns to rent. It ain't cheap, but if you wanna try something mainstream out, they probably have it. If you have such a thing in OH/KY, you might expect to pay $60+ for the "test ride." But, basically, if you are sticking with 9mm, how it fires probably isn't gonna shock you no matter what gun it is. If you can't fire it, you might just have to see how it feels in the hand and go from there.

But if I (and hopefully a hot girl) are upstairs and I hear broken glass I want something I can use.

Being that I'm not a real big guy... I've found 9mm to be my "sweet spot". A while back I shot an assortment and I didn't mind .40 too much but accuracy was iffy, I couldn't hit shit with a .45 (I'm exaggerating but I was definitely struggling) and I was deadly with a nine. It was a Ruger, but I've heard the CZ 75 SP-01 is unreal.

I don't shoot much, and it's not a real passion of mine. Should I go budget and practice enough to stay proficient or get something nicer and see if I grow into it, so to speak?

If it's going to be your only one I wouldn't go cheap.

I have also heard good things about the CZ, although I have not even fondled one.

Personally I am very fond of my Springfield XDM. I also have a soft spot for the Beretta 92fs (Military designation M9) although I cheaped out there and bought the Taurus clone.

Glocks have a good reputation as reliable pieces, although I personally don't like them.

Do like Carlitos said and go to every gun shop u can find and fondle them all, see what feels right in your hand. Shoot every one you can talk a buddy into letting you shoot.

Polymer guns are nice and light but kick harder than metal guns. I have a polymer 9mm that is harder to hang onto than both of my .40's.

Good shopping.

Well, I gotta say that a 155mm howitzer is a bit much for home defense, but what the hey, you never can have too much firepower.

As far as peashooters go, I've fired a lot of different pistols in different calibers and my preference is for the 9mm. I too have smaller hands but the main reasons are that .40 and .45 are both expensive and harder to control. 9mm is plenty of power for self defense and while an expert can fire a .45 with the best accuracy in match shooting I think 9mm is still the best all purpose round when also factoring in cost considerations. You need to hit what you are shooting at and you need to practice to hit anything so that's my rationale. I favor sigs over glocks because the trigger pull of a glock was a bit dart gun like to me. But I haven't owned a pistol in many years as in NY it's a pain in the ass to deal with all the paperwork. But if you don't plan on firing it at least once a month I think semi-auto pistols aren't ideal because they need to be fired to be kept in working order. Since I live in a rural area and any caliber pistol ain't doing shit to a bear or other aggressive animal I just keep a 12 gauge with 00 buck handy. The bears flee at the sight of humans and the slugs are better to deal with them but I figure if it doesn't run after the first round goes into the air I want to make sure that it's going to feel the pain if it gets aggressive. Works real good against asshole humans too!

I should have clarified... Target World is indoor and they have rentals. Here's their list:

http://www.targetworld.net/therange.htm#RENTALS

They used to have a few Sigs but I guess they wore out.

I've been reading about the CZ's and they sound like good shooters but they're heavy and all steel. I'm sure there are tons of viable options, but I would definitely stick to the names I know - like all the ones mentioned above. Sig, Ruger, H&K, Glock, Beretta, and CZ make up the shortlist.

Interesting blurb from a review on the CZ 75 SP-01:

CZ 75 SP-01 size: I buy compact handguns all of the time. Light, short barrels, tactical sights; perfect compromises for concealed carry...but I don't carry a concealed handgun, so basically I lose more than I gain in performance, all for the cheap tawdry reward of impressing my superficial friends. The increased sight radius and stabilizing mass of the SP-01 made me a much better shooter. If you'll notice my target shooting references, they are mostly close, 7 yards, just 21 feet. I review handguns at a distance typical for home defense and I shoot rapidly as might be the case in a defensive situation. In this setting the SP-01 provides a lot of confidence. I don't know how the SP-01 will do at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest when some writer is apparently attempting to simulate deer hunting with an autoloader. I do know the SP-01 will punch cloverleaf groups all day long at 7 yards, a distance greater than most of the rooms in my home.

The 9x19 cartridge: I am not a 9mm Luger fan, but then I am not a 308 Winchester fan either. Still, I accept both cartridges' ability to do the job for which they were intended. For a defensive piece, the 9mm Luger is an excellent choice. There is a big difference between impressing buddies at the range with excessive muzzle blast and recoil and being alone in the dark with your family and having to deal with a possibly armed intruder in the house. In the first case, you buy every idiot combination on the market. A snub nosed 500 S&W comes to mind - welcome to my world. In the second case, you want manageable recoil, an absence of excessive muzzle blast and a choice in ammo that has absolute stopping power without turning the interior and exterior walls of the house into Swiss cheese. The SP-01 shoots such a round and it shoots a lot of them without reloading. Welcome to the real world.

Recreational target shooting: I spent a lot of time bullseye shooting with a Colt Gold Cup...two or three hundred years ago. I didn't load up with +P 230 grain hollow points, I shot 185 grain semi wad cutters that did little more than crawl out of its barrel. Like the soft recoiling 45 ACP bullseye load, only at 1,100 fps, 9mm Luger full power factory ammo makes gaining skill through practice a positive experience. I usually get to the range once a week or once every two weeks. While writing this article I found myself at the range four times in the same week. By the time the second session came around, I wasn't paying attention to the gun anymore, I was paying attention to the little groups on my targets.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/147.htm

:thumbsup

I should have clarified... Target World is indoor and they have rentals. Here's their list:

http://www.targetworld.net/therange.htm#RENTALS

They used to have a few Sigs but I guess they wore out.



Wow, they're cheap to rent up there. At the place I was talking about, it's $40, but it includes 50 rounds of ammo.

Target World's list of guns is kinda all over the map... Interesting.

I've been reading about the CZ's and they sound like good shooters but they're heavy and all steel.

Interesting blurb from a review on the CZ 75 SP-01:

[i]CZ 75 SP-01 size: I buy compact handguns all of the time. Light, short barrels, tactical sights; perfect compromises for concealed carry...but I don't carry a concealed handgun, so basically I lose more than I gain in performance, all for the cheap tawdry reward of impressing my superficial friends. The increased sight radius and stabilizing mass of the SP-01 made me a much better shooter. If you'll notice my target shooting references, they are mostly close, 7 yards, just 21 feet. I review handguns at a distance typical for home defense and I shoot rapidly as might be the case in a defensive situation. In this setting the SP-01 provides a lot of confidence. I do know the SP-01 will punch cloverleaf groups all day long at 7 yards, a distance greater than most of the rooms in my home.

There is a big difference between impressing buddies at the range with excessive muzzle blast and recoil and being alone in the dark with your family and having to deal with a possibly armed intruder in the house. In the second case, you want manageable recoil, an absence of excessive muzzle blast and a choice in ammo that has absolute stopping power without turning the interior and exterior walls of the house into Swiss cheese. The SP-01 shoots such a round and it shoots a lot of them without reloading.

Recreational target shooting: I spent a lot of time bullseye shooting with a Colt Gold Cup...two or three hundred years ago. I didn't load up with +P 230 grain hollow points, I shot 185 grain semi wad cutters that did little more than crawl out of its barrel. Like the soft recoiling 45 ACP bullseye load, only at 1,100 fps, 9mm Luger full power factory ammo makes gaining skill through practice a positive experience. http://www.realguns.com/archives/147.htm

:thumbsup

That's the whole point. If you are not going to carry, who cares about "concealability". You are looking for "shootability".

Longer barrel = easier to hit what you're shooting at (increased sight radius).

Heavier gun = less perceived recoil = quicker recovery for follow up shots.

If this is what you want I would also suggest looking at some medium frame revolver in 38spl/.357. Revolvers (even cheaper ones) offer the utmost in reliability. The trade off is reduced round count and usually a higher trigger pull in DA. There are some nice ones around with 4 and 6 inch barrels, 7 and even 8 shot cylinders, that would do the home defense bit perfectly without any fears of magazine springs 'taking a set' which is supposedly a myth.

Don't let a sales man tell you what you need, tell him what you want. There are concessions to be made in a concealed carry handgun that don't need to be made and shouldn't be made in a handgun that is strictly for home defense.

On the other hand, if I was going to buy a gun strictly for home defense I would get either a 12 ga pump and load it with BB size shot (tungsten or bismuth, not steel) or #3 or #4 buck (my personal compromise between stopping power and overpenetration) or if I had money to burn an AR15 loaded with 69 or 77 gr HPBT match factory ammo.

Less paperwork. Easier to hit with. Much more effective at stopping zombies.

I love guns!!! :)

Ley me see....Hmmm....

Here's what I have in the safe:

Benelli Super Black Eagle 12ga
Para Ordinance P-10 Nighthog .45ACP
Kimber Stainless Goldmatch .45ACP
Walther P99 with Trijicon night sights
Walther P22 with extended barrel and lazer sight (really for the wife to use. It's less intimidating to her.)
Kel-tec P3AT
Mossberg 835 Ulti-mag pump action 12ga
Cheap old Sears bolt action 410 shotgun

I'd buy more if I didn't have a family to support. Guns are way to much fun. :mrgreen:

On the other hand, if I was going to buy a gun strictly for home defense I would get either a 12 ga pump and load it with BB size shot (tungsten or bismuth, not steel) or #3 or #4 buck (my personal compromise between stopping power and overpenetration) or if I had money to burn an AR15 loaded with 69 or 77 gr HPBT match factory ammo.

Less paperwork. Easier to hit with. Much more effective at stopping zombies.
That's what my dad tells me. He's consultant no. 1 since he's easy to get ahold of and has a small arsenal of his own. Last time we hit the outdoor range I shot his Taurus .45 and the Ruger 9. Nice thing about 9's is the ammo is still reasonable for rec shooting.

Anyway, he was telling me that all things being equal... nothing makes an intruder soil his shorts like the shunk-shunk of a shotgun. But if I had a handgun I'd probably want to take it to the range every so often just for kicks. So a 9 is probably a good choice for control and economics.

155mm (6.1") howitzer fires an approx 95lb projectile burning up to max of about 16lbs of powder to achieve a max range of 14 miles with standard round and 18 miles with a rocket assisted projectile.
Awesome pic, Seetrout. With your permission, I'd like to use that one as my new Desktop.

The Sigs are not cheap. A Glock should be less than $600; a Ruger less than $500.

Ha! I got my first Sig (new!) at an auction. $450. If you're looking for one, Sig's CPO program is a darned nice way to acquire a factory-rehabbed pistol at a nice price.

I love guns!!! :)
Yeah. What he said.

all things being equal... nothing makes an intruder soil his shorts like the shunk-shunk of a shotgun.
That's "chack-chack," Mister! :)

Not gonna fully quote him here, but Seetrout's advice is good, IMO.

Awesome pic, Seetrout. With your permission, I'd like to use that one as my new Desktop.

Go for it, I googled it up.

Not gonna fully quote him here, but Seetrout's advice is good, IMO.

So Hoky, I'll quote him indirectly through you as well. :wink:

He's right on all counts, though I personally am too much of a gadget guy to overlook a nice compact sidearm.

As supporting evidence for the mass/barrel length/accuracy relationship, I can tell you that as a rule, I usually shoot my buddies' heavier and longer guns better than I shoot my own. My little .40 might be a little more difficult to master, but if you can get good at it, you can master almost anything. :thumbsup

Oh, and JBarx, don't forget your night sights (the radioactive, tritium kind). You can have them added on at any time, but for what your primary use will be, they may become invaluable.

I usually shoot my buddies' heavier and longer guns better than I shoot my own.
That's because yours is a Glock. :lol2::lol2:

Kidding aside (for now), mass does help. Another good example of "not enough mass" is the little North American Arms revolver. Darned thing will try to jump out of your hand when it goes off. There's little mass, and darned little to hold onto in the first place.

Night sights = good. I don't know about other brands, but they can be added to the Sigs for about $100. Not bad!

I'd like to get me one of these: Ruger 10/22 Rifle (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Rifle&subtype=Autoloading&famlst=39)

but should i get a hardwood?

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/13L.jpg
or synthetic stock?
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/417L.jpg

i'm leaning towards hardwood. then i gotta find a way to mount it to my bike like the terminator does in T2:

ZCSK63SBDfQ

BTW, this movie was one of the great inspirations for me as a child to want to get a motorcycle

I like the hardwood/stainless combo, myself. :)