Dunno, I was asked to make this thread, so I'm wussing out and copying something I wrote before :P HAHA. Any other questions, concerns or comments?

The best way to make a battery last is to prepare it properly.

Fill the to-be-sealed unit with electrolyte, allowing the acid to seep in from the acid pack over time. Do not attempt to speed up the process.

Install the seal, and let the battery stand for 20 minutes to 2 hours (depends on manufacturer). In order for the acid to fully soak into the lead plates.

Charge the battery at 10% of its rated amp hours for 10 hours. So if it were a ten amp hour battery (it will say this on the outside) you would charge it at 1 amp for 10 hours.

Allow the battery to sit another 20 minutes.

Install the positive lead first, using a small amount of dielectric grease on the terminal posts to prevent corrosion. Ensure the connection is tight!

Place the rubber boot over the post.

Install the negative lead with dielectric grease. Ensure the connection is tight.







As for which to remove first, you remove the GROUND side first, on most bikes this is the negative as a standard, but older British and some American bikes used the positive side as a ground. Check the wiring diagram if you're uncertain.

The reason you remove the ground first is because the frame itself is used as a path to ground. If you have the ground connected and accidentally touch a bare spot on the frame and the other battery terminal, you've created a direct short (an arc welder). More then likely the shock will knock your hand/tool off the terminal and prevent anything really bad from happening. But it's also possible that the tool will be welded in place with the short and potentially cause the battery to explode.


Jumping your bike with a car battery:

Actually, if done correctly you won't harm either battery in the least, no matter how long you leave it hooked up.

The biggest difference between the average car battery, and the average bike battery is the amp-hour rating. Most for bikes are very small (small starter motor) I believe ours is a 9 amp-hour battery. Cars are substantially higher ratings.

If both batteries are 12 volts then you're safe to use it to jump the bike. Do the following.

Ensure both bike and car are turned off.
Connect Positive cable to postive on car battery
Connect negative cable to negative on car battery
DO NOT allow the other two ends to touch!!!
Connect positive cable to positive on bike battery
Connect negative cable to negative on bike battery
DO NOT get positive and negative mixed up!!!
DO NOT start the car

Turn the ignition on on the bike
start the bike normally
disconnect negative on bike, positive on bike, negative on car, positive on car

What you effectively did was make one big battery with a large amp hour rating. If you were to attempt to start the car you would pull a lot of amp hours through the bike battery which would exceed its rated capacity and potentially blow it up. BOOM, sad face.

A good part of this doesn't apply to the 599's battery as it is a sealed, gel type battery that is fully charged right out of the box.

The second bit of advice I would give is how to charge. I used to have a manual charger, check the specific gravity while charging using one of the little turkey basters with four balls in it, a complete pain. Now I have a harbor freight charger that has three or four settings. I put it on trickle and it automatically kicks off when the battery is charged. It was less than 30 bucks. My wife's new battery only took 4 hours to kick the charger off and has been working fine this year. Of course, for a 150cc scooter, the battery isn't much more than a 9 volt smoke detector battery <grin>.

A good part of this doesn't apply to the 599's battery as it is a sealed, gel type battery that is fully charged right out of the box.

The second bit of advice I would give is how to charge. I used to have a manual charger, check the specific gravity while charging using one of the little turkey basters with four balls in it, a complete pain. Now I have a harbor freight charger that has three or four settings. I put it on trickle and it automatically kicks off when the battery is charged. It was less than 30 bucks. My wife's new battery only took 4 hours to kick the charger off and has been working fine this year. Of course, for a 150cc scooter, the battery isn't much more than a 9 volt smoke detector battery <grin>.

I know why your battery doesn't last very long...

1) You're wrong, the sealed type battery you have comes shipped with the acid in a special "pack". And the battery itself is vacuum sealed, but contains no acid. This pack contains a precisely measured amount of sulfuric acid, that is designed to drip in over an extended period. The battery is then sealed with a strip that comes with it. The strip reads, "do not open" across the top, and those instructions should be followed.

Simply dumping the acid into the battery and installing it in the bike MAY allow you to start the bike, this is because a chemical reaction is started when the acid hits the lead which produces a small charge. If you get the bike started with the "uncharged" battery then let it run long enough it's possible that the bikes alternator will bring the battery up to full charge. It's also possible that you just wasted the money you spent on that battery.

2) If you're checking the specific gravity of a "sealed battery" you're an idiot, and have ruined your battery, they're sealed for a reason, do not go inside.

3) Trickle chargers are all well and good, but that is not the BEST way to initially charge a battery. A trickle charger is for "battery maintenance," NOT battery preparation.

4) As mentioned above the correct method of initially charging a battery is to charge it at 10% of the batteries rated amp hours for 10 hours. So, a 9 amphour battery (like the hornet's sealed type battery) should be charged at .9 amps for a minimum of 10 hours. Then allowed to sit for AT LEAST 20 minutes prior to installation.

Sev, you obviously are very knowledgeable in regards to motorcycles and such, all I can do is speak about my experience...

I ordered a battery on-line form WestCo and had it shipped to me via UPS (painless and quick) for my last bike and it didn't come with anything to add... instructions said that it was ready to use out of the box, no charging needed… There may be a slight difference in how a shop gets things as opposed to the end consumer? Maybe they WestCo added whatever it is before they shipped but either way I didn't need to...

Oh, and make sure the trickle charger you get is specifically for your battery type… as I understand it, newer tech sealed batteries need special electrical treatment as opposed to the old school lead acid types, at least that is what the BMW dealer guy told me when I pick up a Battery Tender re-branded to BMW at a $20 premium because I wanted to get going right a way...(could be a bunch of BS but I gotta trust him till I find out otherwise)

I worked at the Honda dealership at the time I got my 599 and I can tell you that the OEM Honda sportbikes, as most of their bikes (not all, but most), come with the battery as a fully sealed unit, ready to bolt into the bike and go. In fact, there is no way to open the OEM battery in my 599 short of using a sledgehammer.

Second, I did not say use a trickle charger, I said use a conventional charger in the "trickle" setting, as stated in the instructions of both most acid batteries and the chargers. The trickle setting on my charger says "trickle/motorcycle, the trickle being a trickle setting for a car only.

Third, while your 10% for this amount of time, etc, is a great guideline, it's not ensure a good charge every time as there is no set "time" for charging a battery. You charge it until it is charged. Unless you have an automatic shutoff on your charger that detects when the battery is no longer accepting a charge, the only way to check it is specific gravity. As you pointed out, if you have a sealed battery, there is no way to check specific gravety. Then again, unless you have drained the battery, there is no reason to charge it anyway.

Finally, I think throwing the word idiot around isn't the ideal thing to do. This "idiot" has been working on motorcycles and scooters for over 20 years.

I'm impressed, you actually had me doubting myself for a second there... in fact, I literally just ran down to the garage to check the battery in my bike.

YTX7-BS. Look closely at the top of yours (there are instructions for initial charge) not only that... but there is a small set of plastic seals (that are amazingly easy to get out if you know what you're doing who needs a sledgehammer when a pair of needle-nose pliers?

Now... things may be different in the states, but I've been preparing upwards of 10 of these a day at work. And every single one involves the following steps:

1) remove battery and acid pack from box (the battery may be stored in the bike)
2) Take acid pack out of separate box
3) Remove plastic bag sealing acid pack
4) Remove the sealing caps from the acid pack (save this)
5) Remove the vacuum seal from the dry battery
6) hold the acid pack above the battery and press down firmly to break the tinfoil like seals
7) allow the battery to stand like that until the acid has fully drained into the battery
8) remove the now empty acid pack
9) remember that sealing cap that you saved from the acid pack? Push it into place to seal the top of the battery "permanently". The use of a rubber mallet makes this much easier.
10) allow to stand 20 minutes
11) charge

But don't take my word for it, I'll bring home a set of instructions on Monday and scan them just for you. Or if you want I'll take pictures of me doing it.



The only question that I have for you is:
"If the batteries come fully charged and fully sealed and do not need to be charged... how do they maintain the charges on the batteries after they have been shipped? A bike in crate can potentially sit for years (my 599 was bought in latish '05) wouldn't the battery have discharged itself and sulfated by then? Or does Honda have some super-special method of preventing this that none of the other manufacturers are aware of? Remember, we've had reports on here of batteries going bad in as little as a month of sitting without the bike being used. I find it VERY hard to believe that my battery could have sat for over a year without maintenance charges along the way.

Say, what exactly is the PDI procedure for a 599? I've got a complaint about what was done to mine, but I want to know if I should be talking to the dealer, or Honda themself.

Finally, aren't you in IT? Not mechanics? I know that it's pretty common to switch jobs, especially in todays economy (at least where I live). But 20 years as a mechanic, followed by joining the airforce to do IT? Impressive to say the least. I commend your sense of adventure. Far to many people are stuck in the, "I've been doing this for so long I cannot get out of it now." Screw them, yes you can. If you want out, get out, and find something you like.

Sev, you obviously are very knowledgeable in regards to motorcycles and such, all I can do is speak about my experience...

I ordered a battery on-line form WestCo and had it shipped to me via UPS (painless and quick) for my last bike and it didn't come with anything to add... instructions said that it was ready to use out of the box, no charging needed… There may be a slight difference in how a shop gets things as opposed to the end consumer? Maybe they WestCo added whatever it is before they shipped but either way I didn't need to...

Oh, and make sure the trickle charger you get is specifically for your battery type… as I understand it, newer tech sealed batteries need special electrical treatment as opposed to the old school lead acid types, at least that is what the BMW dealer guy told me when I pick up a Battery Tender re-branded to BMW at a $20 premium because I wanted to get going right a way...(could be a bunch of BS but I gotta trust him till I find out otherwise)

The work was likely done for you prior to shipping, as a charged/acid filled battery does not last long without maintenance charging. I cannot see any manufacturer wasting the money to ship a charged battery with a bike that may not be run for years. I can promise you that whether you do the work, or someone else does, these are the steps that are to be/should be taken.

In fact, they're in the PDI manual for all the bikes I've had to play with.

I love all this info but Im staying out of this one as I have no clue..... Ive NEVER had to "prepare" a battery ...... albeit I work on cars and have many many batteries in stock but they come prepped and our stock is rotated with new batteries on a regular basis :D so when we need a battery we pull it off the shelf .... put it in the car ..... run a full electrical test and get it the hell out the door :lol: I am inclined to lean towards Sev's info only because I know for a fact he deals with this every day and probably nights too


:D

A friend of mine works at a Honda Dealership, I sent him this message last night. And recieved the answer this morning.

Hey JP,
I hate to do this too you, but I've managed to get into a little argument, and I was hoping that you could settle it for me ;). I've been told that Honda's (sportbikes specifically) come shipped with the acid in the battery and fully charged ready to be installed and ridden away. I basically said this is completely untrue, but he maintains that I'm incorrect. Am I totally out to lunch here?

Regards,

[Name Removed}
You are correct, all Honda, lead acid batteries come with the acid separate and must be added then the battery charged of course. I myself had to do this two times at Riverside. I have seen the process rushed, because the customer was waiting and the battery was PUSHED-CHARGED ! As long as it would start the bike, it was considered ready to go. By the way it was a great get together Sunday the 27. I am really not sure about [name removed]...I think her attitude is not quite right for the line of work she "wants" to do.
jpp

Here's a post on someone that bought an aftermarket replacement YTX battery. Go argue with them:

http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15720

As you can see in the post, they ordered the YTX series battery, it came in fully sealed, activated, and charged. That's the way it came on my 599, again, fully sealed, charged, etc.

Yes, the top piece that comes off to expose the cells is there, complete with a big thing printed across it saying "DO NOT OPEN."

The charging instructions give the charge rate, if it would ever need charged, which it did not. The YUASA site recommend verifying that the battery is charged, but that would be in the case of excessive storage, as you stated.

Finally, I don't choose to defend myself, but you give very little choice. I am in the IT industry, true, but my hobby has been motorcycles for 20 years. Prior to my last two bikes which were newer machines, my bikes were basket cases that I brought back to life. The one that's still around is a 79 400A. My brother rides a 450A which I keep runnin for him as he is not mechanically inclined in the least.

I worked on weekends in the local Honda shop as a sales associate as well as helping out the younger guys on the older bikes. Funny, the younger guys didn't have a clue as to what a "Hondamatic motorcycle" was. You oughta seen them when I pulled the 79 400A out of storage and rode it up to the shop.

I would bet that if your bikes are coming with the acid separate, which could be the case, that it's because your country doesn't allow the two to be shipped as one unit. All I can tell you is what we have which is, if a bike comes in with a YTX type battery, it is sealed, charged, and ready to go.

Come on, man, why the hell would I lie to you?

FWIW, when I needed a replacement for my 599's battery, I got one from the local shop here in San Diego. I took it home, opened the box, took out the little package of acid, took off the caps, poured the acid into the battery, let it soak in, put the caps on the battery to seal it, and then put it on the battery tender for a few hours to charge it.

So at least in my case my battery was NOT already to go, with the acid inside, charged up.

Why would you call me a liar?

I was ASKED to do this.

Regardless, proof to follow on Monday once I get back from work - whether it's pictures of me actually activating the batteries, or a scan of the instructions that come in the box.

Dude, I am not doubting you. All I can tell you is how the bikes came in to our shop last year (I didn't have time to do the part time gig this year.) I can tell you the two bikes I helped prep, a CBR600 and a CBR1000, both had the batteries sealed, charged, and ready to go in the crate with the mirrors and such. The 599 was the same way according to Jake, the shop supervisor and the guy that prepped my 599.

That doesn't mean yours don't. As far as pics, I ain't taken any as I don't care if you believe me or not. I never doubted you, but I am curious as to why you are doubting me. Again, why would I lie.

Understand this. If I am wrong, I'll admit it. In the IT field, things change so fast that you can't be absolute about anything. Hell, if someone told me that Honda shipped half the 599's with batteries that were prepped and half with the acid and battery separate, I would believe it.

So let's quit this pissin' contest.

Kids...

#1 there is no need to call anyone any names or make judgments as to their intellect: Say what you know and let it be. Don't make it personal. Don't take it personal. (Please :( )

Take a deep breath...Has been my experience that rarely is anyone 100% right...or WRONG. There may be pieces of the puzzle that are assumed but different for different situations.

This is precisely why I asked Sev to post up about batteries...I'm baffled by them...(like why does my replacement cell battery only last 1/4 as long as the one that came with the phone???)

I have questions as to sealed/not sealed, Lead acid, glass matt and gel batteries... I doubt that they are all treated the same. I don't know the differences between them, advantages and disadvantages of each...does each get preped different...?

Also, I can believe a dealers (in general) would have a bike in the building and leave it in the crate for over a year...usually don't they like to prep them and get them on the showroom floor ASAP? In my industry, if someone can't see it, they usually don't buy... SO if you buy a year old new bike and they didn't just order it for you, I'd guess it has been sitting on the dealer floor for a little while.

:D we are all here for the same reason ..... we all have that in common :D

OK well guess what happened to me? My battery died! So I went down to my local Honda Dealer and got a new one for $96 and they gave me a discount of $10 so it cost me only $86 still a freaking rip off if you ask me. I got a new YUASA battery part #YTX7L-BS. In the battery box was an other box-containing electrolyte that had to be added to the battery and then they charged it for me. So far so good but this battery is almost as much as my car battery :? . Sears would only give a 6MO warranty on a battery from them and the YUASA has a 12MO warranty from the dealer. What can I say it was the original battery and the bike was built in 03 so not too bad I guess? :roll:


Angelo 8)

What kind of battery is the Yuasa (couldn't determine from their web site :( )

One place said Lead acid, another AGM (and that may be the same?)
I hate batteries...

Anyway, think Sev is correct in that how you treat the battery on it's first charge will affect how long it will last...

Also, I can believe a dealers (in general) would have a bike in the building and leave it in the crate for over a year...usually don't they like to prep them and get them on the showroom floor ASAP? In my industry, if someone can't see it, they usually don't buy... SO if you buy a year old new bike and they didn't just order it for you, I'd guess it has been sitting on the dealer floor for a little while.

Naw, they'll have a couple of "floor models" to show you what they have. Generally it is popular to keep AS FEW as possible on the floor (1 of each type) - a floor model is worth less due to wear and tear. The rest are still stored in crates out back. By way of example, we've currently got 12 ZZR600's sitting in crates in a stack out back by the shop. As bikes are bought they are removed from the crates, prepped, checked and sent out.

This is the reason I find it hard to believe a battery is sitting charged in the crate. That crate could sit in storage for a year... or more! I've seen dealers offering deals on "new bikes" upwards of 2 years old. A charged battery can lose up to 2% of its total charge per month. Considering a charged sealed battery is aprox 13volts, and a discharged one below 12.5, that's pretty quick.

Regardless:

HERE is a YTX12 (supersealed) battery sitting in a bike
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/DSC00938.jpg

HERE is the battery removed from the bike with the acid pack next to it
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/DSC00939.jpg

HERE are the instructions for preparing the battery for use
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/img004.jpg

Close up of relevant details
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/img004-1.jpg

Sadly this bike was destined for the showroom, so the battery itself was reinserted into the bike (with the vacuum seal in place), and the acid was set aside for activation when the bike is bought. Hopefully I'll have to do a battery tomorrow, so I can show the full process.

This is precisely why I asked Sev to post up about batteries...I'm baffled by them...(like why does my replacement cell battery only last 1/4 as long as the one that came with the phone???)

Did you charge the replacement battery prior to installing it???


I have questions as to sealed/not sealed, Lead acid, glass matt and gel batteries... I doubt that they are all treated the same. I don't know the differences between them, advantages and disadvantages of each...does each get preped different...?

Hooookay, so, a sealed battery is exactly what it says, it should be a sealed-airtight unit that never needs its electrolyte levels adjusted. It has the advantages of - never accidently venting acid to the atmosphere, you can use it in any position (on its side, or upside down even), it will last longer, only maintenance is to charge it. It will also last longer. The exact method that is used to keep the hydrogen that is producedfrom blowing up the battery I am not sure of.

But it'll cost more.

A nonsealed battery has a vent to give off the hydrogen that is produced during the charging of the battery. This means the battery must be used in an upright position, and the battery fluid levels must be maintained, or topped up. It's cheaper to make, and cheaper to buy, but requires maintenance. And it will not last as long.

Very Kewl ...... so who else copied those directions and saved them like I did ? :lol: Thanx Sev

Sev - Thanks! And once you've activated the battery, what is the suggested procedure for the initial charge?


Here is the info for my replacement battery from WestCo...
(not for nothing but after seeing what must be done for the standard battery...for me well worth the extra $$)
http://www.westcobattery.com/faqs.html

What is an AGM battery?
AGM is an abbreviation for absorbed glass mat. In this design, the acid is completely absorbed into glass mat separators which are sandwiched between the lead plates. It's a totally sealed and maintenance free design. There are no discharge tubes or fillers caps, which eliminates the need to maintain water levels and offers no concern about acid leaks on valuable parts and accessories.

Why is an AGM battery better than a conventional motorcycle battery?
AGM batteries offer the following advantages over conventional batteries:
- Sealed maintenance free design means you never have to worry about checking water levels.
- AGM technology will not leak or corrode on paint and chrome.
- They have less internal resistance which offers more CCA amperage than wet batteries.
- By nature AGM batteries are more heat and vibration resistant than conventional batteries, both which contribute to the large majority of failures in motorcycle applications.
- Slower self discharge rate (longer shelf life) means battery can sit for extended periods of time without constant monitoring. A wet battery discharges 15% a month, where our AGM batteries discharge only 2-3% a month.

Should longer service life be expected from an AGM battery?
Yes.
- The main reason wet batteries fail is due to the fact that water levels are not properly monitored coupled with the fact that they are not very vibration resistant. AGM batteries do not have to be constantly maintained and are much more resistant to both heat and vibration, which is why they offer longer service life.

Do I need to charge my battery when I get it?
No.
-Our batteries are ready to go out of the box if installed within the first
thirty days.


NOTE: the battery was a wee bit bigger than the standard so I had to loose the plastic boot it sat in (different bike) but that was ok since this battery was sealed...probably could have wiggled it in but I was in a hurry :(

Here's the followup, prepped a ZX-10R today, so I had to do a YTX12-BS battery.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/DSC00940.jpg
Let the acid drain in.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/DSC00941.jpg

Here's me preparing to seal the battery.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a227/Sevulturus/Bikes/Battery/DSC00942.jpg

Judicious application of a rubber mallet results in a battery that need never be opened.


The charge rate, as mentioned above is ideally 10% of the rated amp hours for a minimum of 10 hours.


Based on the FAQ, someone prepped that battery right before it was sent out to you.