My 1998 Subaru has 120K miles and little things are starting to fail (lights for the stereo, dome light is erratic, drivers door mechanisim is tired and allows door to fall back into me as I exit the car). I started doing research for a suitable replacement and am leaning towards the new (2007) Honda Civic Si sedan (4 door). I drove one yesterday and was amazed - feels like a 4 wheel 599 to me! Decent mid range, very strong top end, digital speedo, good price (just under $21K), very nice stereo with MP3 player ability.
Only other car on my short list is a Mazdaspeed 3. It can carry more, but I think it has more HP then I really need and I worry a bit about reliabilty with a high pressure turbo motor (around 263 HP from a 2.3 liter).
Your comments/input are welcome - I want to make a well informed
decision here.

PS: Can someone tell me how/where I can get a 599 T-shirt??

Kevin

www.cafepress.com/honda599
Thats where you get the shirts..
As far as the cars go, You cant go wrong with the Honda. There incredible cars.. But if your worried about the Reliability of the Turbocharged car. I wouldnt. These days car Engines wear relatively very Little and the Mfg's have the whole Supercharger/Turbocharger thing down to a Science.. I think it comes down to mostly user preference..Thats Just My opinion... Certainly Honda is Top notch. No doubting that... But dont base your decision completely on the Reliability thing either... you should deffinatly look around for people who drive both cars for first hand knowledge. And I believe Consumer Reports does a reliability rating on all manufacturers and models.. Please correct me if Im wrong.. But I know you can find ratings on them.. I'd also do A SH!TTON of research on each vehicle as well.. Buying a car is a Huge decision....

I drove both the Si and the new GTI (one year used, under 10k miles on it... could have easily had it for $20k). As much of a Honda guy as I am, I liked the GTI much better. It seemed more spacious, the seats and tranny were great (though you can't go wrong with a Honda manual), and I liked the engine in the Veedub much better. Felt more powerful overall and a wider powerband. And I don't think the engine is stressed at all. You can spend under $1k in mods and get another 60-80 HP out of it, from what I hear.

Also, my sister owns a 2006 EX Coupe... I've driven it a bit and I can't stand the A-pillars. They're big and in the way. I won't buy a Civic just because of that. The sedan has the same problem.

Honda is the same to me whether it be a car or motorcycle. The real value isn't realized until you get a few miles on 'em. VW's are JUNK after about 40K miles, not mechanically so much as their electrics and body hardware tend to go to pot, at least that's been my experience. While Mazda is reliable, it's no Honda.

Our family has a long history of Honda cars. We run 'em to at least 250K miles before we even think of trading. My current "Beater" is a 1991 Civic 4wd wagon with 226K miles on it.

I do like some of what Mazda offers these days, but I just don't see a Mazda running like my 1991 Honda when it gets to the same age and mileage.

IN short, get the HONDA!

My friend has a Jetta with the 1.8t engine and absolutely loves it. It's a very nice car. But honestly, i'd go with the Mazda or Honda. The Jetta is chipped and very fast, but the Mazdaspeed3 would have that same power but from the factory=more reliable. His 1.8 is pushing ~22psi to get about the same power. I don't think the Mazda is stressing their engine that much. Plus they have the other supporting parts designed to handle it (IC, injectors, etc).

Personally i'd love the Mazda and it would be my choice. But you just cant go wrong with a Honda.

Honda fanboy-ism at it's finest. Yeah, a Honda may ride until the wheel fall off but that isn't the only reason to buy a car. I just recently was looking at cars and wasn't overly impressed with the Hondas. Who wants a car that will go 200k miles if you're not happy with it's looks/ride/whatever? I finally decided on a Mazda6 and I'm happy. Just get the car you want. It's all about personal preference.

ps. I have a subscription to ConsumerReports.org if you want I can send you a copy of any car's reliability and satisfaction reports, just pm me.

I have a 2004 Mazda6 also and I have not had any real problems. It was a great price for what you get as well. Lots of power & good looks IMO. It's totally subjective, but the Hondas don't have much personality... the Speed3 however, is a beast. Practical & fast. I would guess more bang for the buck also... it would be my choice if I was in your shoes.

I guess it comes down to what you are looking for? This is not statistical by any means but I have yet to hear any lemon stories about the 3... VWs though... Mon Dieu! We had a Passat & Golf... I swear they were designed to spontaneously combust at 100,000 Km! And parts were $$$$.

Good luck with your decision... exciting stuff!

Thank you to all who posted a response!
Jawbreaker, thanks for the link - I'll follow up on that (T shirts).
Thanks antihero for the Consumer Reports option - I looked over their
site a couple of days ago.
I discounted the new GTI, as I had problems with a 1.8 turbo
version several years ago and my local VW dealer was worthless.

Thanks again everyone - this forum (and more importantly, the
members) are outstanding!

Kevin

I've been a VW nut for a while. Don't discount the new Rabbit/GTI just because you had problems with a 1.8T. It's a different generation car with a completely different engine and transmission so there's really no comparison.

I drive a 1.8T Jetta and it's been the best car I've ever owned. My fiance drives a 1.8T GTI.

If you had problems with a 1.8T, then I assume you had a 2000 or 2001. Odds are that because those were the first years it was introduced and there were a bunch of coilpack and other random problems with the engine but it was pretty worked out before 2002 rolled around. That was also the time that they were really getting hardcore into manufacturing the cars in Mexico and there were those problems that have since been ironed out.

the new GTI is a 2.0T. Completely different engine running a completely different way. The turbo really doesn't push much boost, but you'll feel it. It's really smooth and the interior and ride will be a lot more comfortable, and a lot less body roll than the honda. I love Honda bikes but their car line is weak. They have potential, but they package them to be so commercially safe so they are just underpowered and cheap. Not price tag- but feeling.

They'll last forever, but the dub would last too and be more fun.

VW is running nice financing now and VW credit has been incredible to me.


HOWEVER, if you'd consider a used car, I've got my jetta for sale. I just don't drive it enough now with the bike and I'm looking to sell it and get a beater instead. something AWD. Only 28k miles and a 2004 1/2 special edition Jetta GLI. Or if you prefer the hatch, my fiance's GTI is also for sale. 2004 with 26k miles.

(we're selling our cars, getting an AWD beater, and 1 nice car - the new 2008 Volvo C30)...


edit* I don't expect you to actually consider my cars considering the distance - but they are for sale.

I am not a big fan of the looks of the new GTI - probably because of
my age (old fart...44 years old). I want to get a new car locally
as well. My GTI was a limited edition model called a "337" and if
I recall right, it was a 2002 model. Had the 1.8 Turbo, six speed, Recaro
seats, Reflex silver exterior and the brakes from an Audi TT.
I really loved that car, but after turbo and/or intake problems started,
the dealer could not locate the problem (it came and went) and they kept
trying to fix it as cheaply as they could (warranty work). Again, I loved
that car, just can not (will not) trust my local VW dealer.
I am too old to be hitch hiking in the Santa Cruz Mountains at night
(I do not need to hear "Hey, you got a purdy mouth boy...") - I need
something more reliable than that.

Kevin

I am not a big fan of the looks of the new GTI - probably because of
my age (old fart...44 years old). I want to get a new car locally
as well. My GTI was a limited edition model called a "337" and if
I recall right, it was a 2002 model. Had the 1.8 Turbo, six speed, Recaro
seats, Reflex silver exterior and the brakes from an Audi TT.
I really loved that car, but after turbo and/or intake problems started,
the dealer could not locate the problem (it came and went) and they kept
trying to fix it as cheaply as they could (warranty work). Again, I loved
that car, just can not (will not) trust my local VW dealer.
I am too old to be hitch hiking in the Santa Cruz Mountains at night
(I do not need to hear "Hey, you got a purdy mouth boy...") - I need
something more reliable than that.

Kevin

a 337! NICE! I remember when those came out I was psyched. Then the 20th anniversary came out the following year which followed the same lines but took it up a notch I thought. I remember thinking, "If only they'd do that to a Jetta" because I'm not really a fan of the hatches in general as a car for myself. Then the following year we get the GLI which has all the same stuff as the 20th, except it's a jetta and it's got the BBS RC 18" rims just like the 337 you had, except it's a different finish - but same wheels.

I hear you on the new GTI. It's growing on me, but it still looks like a chubby civic and lost basically all of the distinct Euro look. But it's still a nice deal and fully customizable.
The Jetta is butt ugly though. No redeeming that.

I have a friend who has a R32. He swapped with a friend who had a GLI and put the RCs on in place of the stockers. Those are some of the best looking wheels, imo, and look good on almost every car. I don't drool over many wheels, but the RCs are amazingly gorgeous in their simplicity.

NOW you are talking - I LOVE the 2004 R32!!
I got to drive one when my 337 was in the shop - very
sweet ride. Alas, they keep their value too damn well and
still sell for $25K++ (at least they do in the bay area).
If you pay less than that, you'll get a car with 50K miles or
overly modified, etc.

Kevin

The .:R came with 18" Aristos. The wagon-wheel look was hot on that car, but they're nearly impossible to keep clean. The brake dust from those massive calipers is pretty extreme. The RC's are my favorite wheels of all time by far VW ever did. Smart move. I love mine and they're not the easiest to clean, but it's completey worth it.
My car:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n219/webskunk/69_134_minnesota61.jpg

The .:R is the only used car my fiance and I would even consider for our 'nice' car.

Have you seen the new MKV R32 they just are coming out with for 2008?
1. The interior is almost identical to the new GTI. Nothing impressive.
2. Only available in DSG. No manual option available.
3. Front grill doesn't look any better than the GTI so for styling - the dual exhaust and color matched sideskirts are really all you're getting.
4. They should have done the R36 they were planning. The 3.2 really isn't all that impressive since other car manufacturers are releasing equal horsepower without the sticker price of the R.

Totally not worth it. But the 04 R will forever be one of my favorite VWs stock.

Hello! I'm new to the site, but this is a good post to be my 1st.


I've driven every car mentioned so far, Most of them I've done track sessions in at Virginia International or the likes. Look towards consumer reports for your reliability feedback. Sorry VW guys, it's not a good outlook. I drove an R32 at Summit Point, for some reason it just did not give me the 'gotta get one' mindset. One of my close track buddies (also a WERA racer) has a 02 GTI that I drive from time to time, I feel that if he'd spend a little money on some basic power upgrades it would be a really fun car. The basic H&R suspension kit he put on it makes it much more fun than in th stock form. The Honda would be top of the reliability scale. I've owned many, including a 99 Si, CRX street and track cars, even an Accord Wagon. I do like the new 4dr Si, but the power difference between it and the Mazda is very very noticable. I got the chance to flog around a MazdaSpeed3 for a few laps at VIR back in August. Fantastic car, Fantastic Power. Knowing the way I am about not keeping cars forever, I'd have to give the choice to the MazdaSpeed3.

Anywho, I'm Eric :) Just recently purchased an 04 Yaller 599 (with under 1000 miles)

Timely post. I started car shopping two weeks ago after driving an ES300 for the last eight years. Decided I wanted something smaller, quicker, and more fun to drive.

So I test drove a Mazda 3 Tour, Subaru WRX, Scion Tc, VW something or another, an Acura, and the Civic Si. I was leaning toward the Si but went into research mode that included resale values, insurance costs, safety records, recalls (TSB's), Consumer Report, JD Power, and Edmonds reviews.

So I was leaning toward the Si based on my test drive (fun!) and the bang for the buck. But after researching everything, I knew the Si was my winner. Slowest depreciation by far. Best crash test rating. Which translates into the inexpensive insurance ($350/year for 300/100, $500 deductible, and collision), best reviews, and the local dealers were anxious to deal on the '07's. I was able to get them down $1600 off sticker and throw in lifetime oil changes (the Si's oil filter is a real bitch to get to) and free window tinting.

All that was left to do was decide between coupe and sedan. I was certain I wanted the coupe but I really like the look of the sedan better. Those large rear quarter panels on the coupe really need something to break them up - they look huge. The color - there was only one choice for me - black.

And the winner is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/keboyer/Vehicles/Civic%20Si/IMG_0564.jpg

Ken- nice si!

I recently purchased an 05 mazda3 hatchback and i love it. i had done a lot of research and it was best suited for me. I wanted to carry a ton of crap, have a moderately fast car (160hp) and stylish looks. I ended up finding a used one w/ everything but GPS- leather, sunroof, side airbags, abs, xenon hid lights, tire pressure monitors etc. and even had aftermarket wheels. in my research though the best cars in this order would be - honda civic, toyota corolla, mazda3. i considered the new jetta, scion tC as well. no offense i didnt want a civic it just didnt do it for me based on style. honda reliability, high resale value and super smooth running engines are great. i didnt want the corolla unless i could find a rare XRS model w/ 180hp 6spd driveline. corollas around here are CHICK cars but toyota is practically bomb proof (tacoma commercial?). then it came down to my mazda3, available in many trim levels i chose the 2.3L hatch over a 2.0 or 2.3 sedan. if you can afford the insurance on a mazdaspeed3 by all means get it since its not much more than the loaded hatch. the only reason i didnt get a ms3 was insurance was 3x higher than this car for me. i havent had any recalls on my car, but i have 2 TSB's i want taken care of.

http://lh6.google.com/image/rdiddy.douglas/Rk_pPiRQksI/AAAAAAAAAl4/EjaUcND_FrQ/s800/IMG_9722email.jpg

[quote="kjhobbs"]My 1998 Subaru has 120K miles and little things are starting to fail (lights for the stereo, dome light is erratic, drivers door mechanisim is tired and allows door to fall back into me as I exit the car). I started doing research for a suitable replacement and am leaning towards the new (2007) Honda Civic Si sedan (4 door). I drove one yesterday and was amazed - feels like a 4 wheel 599 to me! Decent mid range, very strong top end, digital speedo, good price (just under $21K), very nice stereo with MP3 player ability.

I build those cars at the Honda plant in Alliston!

Gorgeous Mazda3! Test drove one right before the Si and LOVED the 2.3 in the touring model! That car is what led me to go and test drive the Si, which I just fell in love with. But with my great experiences with Honda motorcycles, I just took the plunge on the Si. Love it!