I didn't shoot a deer today, but my neighbor did. I got to skin it and bucher the thing. It was really cool and my manliness just went up a few points.

I cut it's head off with a hack saw then cut his legs off. Then I cut it's skin away then cut out the backstrips, tener loin, hamburger and steaks.

I also got to eat one of the steaks I cut tonight. To be hones't it wasn't that good to me, but maybe I just didn't cook it right, but it was cool to eat an animal that was walking around this morning.

I killed a big crow with a BB gun when I was a kid. It took about a dozen or more BBs before the bird expired. I felt real bad about that. I killed a bird with a 22 once. It took one shot and the bird vanished/exploded! I didn't feel so bad about that. I injured a toad with a firecracker one time. That turned out to be a miserable experience. I felt so sorry for the thing. I killed a deer with my truck close to 20 years ago. It was laying in the road at night (probably cooling itself on the pavement). I thought it was some hay until it was too late. It popped its head up and BOO-YOW! I drug it many yards. I didn't care too much. I was more worried about my truck (big truck=no damage, though). Nobody ever took me hunting as a kid so I never go hunting now. If I DID go hunting and killed an animal, I'd hope that it died VERY INSTANTLY.

I don't like to put killing animals for fun/entertainment in the same class as hunting just because it's what anti-hunters like to do, which is a bit insulting to me...

I've been a few times, but not too many kills. Two squirrels and two rabbits in probably 20-30 trips. Terrible, I know. But they all dropped straight where they were, the squirrels falling 30-40 feet from a tree. I've been deer hunting twice. The second trip had no luck and I ruined my chance the first time. I was in a climber stand looking out over a field. I heard a noise a little behind me, so I tried to turn and see. Made too much noise, so all I saw was a deer running away. I was pissed...

And if anyone wonders, I have no idea what squirrel tastes like... never ate it. Deer, though, is fantastic. I've never cooked it, but I know people who know great ways to cook it or make sausage and jerky from it.

I don't like to put killing animals for fun/entertainment in the same class as hunting...

What's difference? Oh wait... there is no difference.

I'm a fairly avid waterfowl hunter. Being in a duck blind with a couple buddies and a Black Lab in a salt mash is a great experience. Sometimes we'll sit there all day and not get a shot off, and it's just as enjoyable as when we bag our limit and get to have duck for dinner.
I wonder how many hippocrates will read this in disgust while eating their ham sandwich. Nothing like hunting by proxy.

I used to. Fanatically.

It's just too much work anymore where I live so the stress relief is not worth the hassle.

Now I piss people off because I ride instead of pissing them off because I hunt.

What's difference? Oh wait... there is no difference.

Gee, with a comment like that I would have expected you from LA or Manhattan. No offense Slide, things aren't black and white in regards to hunting.

In Wisconsin, the deer population explodes in years where the hunters don't get the quota expected by the DNR. Then immediately after that, the state reports a huge increase in deer related car accidents.

It's not coincidence, Hunting them is a viable means to keep the deer population in check. It also stimulates the economy of many towns in north central wisconsin when the summer crowd has left.

/steps off pedestal

I've never been hunting, but there is something very intriguing to bow hunting that makes me want to try it. Have to bone up on the old archery skills first - LOL.

In all seriousness though, for those who are anit-hunting, I'm curious to know if you find a difference between hunting and fishing? And if so, what is the difference? (Oh, I'm not talking about catch and relase fishing - by the way, there is a hunting equivalent of that, it's a type of wild life photography, but I digress.)

If you're going to tell me that hunting is bad, I hope that you're vegetarian. I think raising masses of animals on a farm in shit conditions with no hope in life but to be slaughtered is a bit worse, but believe what you want, I know I'm not going to change your mind.

You asked for it....

When you take a step backwards, it is black & white. Hunting in all its forms is the unjustified killing and suffering inflicted on a living creature. Ask yourself why there is a deer "over-population" problem? First over-population is a relative term. Humans have decimated the natural habitat of these creatures. Hence, they end up wandering into "our" areas. Also, we have systematically eradicated their natural predators in the most heinous of fashions. Humanity has caused the problem and what is the solution? Ah yes, killing them for sport... win-win for hunters! Short-term & narrow-minded.

Makes you wonder what the approach to human over-population is? Hunting? C'mon...

And as for fishing...

Imagine reaching for an apple on a tree and having your hand suddenly impaled by a metal hook that drags you—the whole weight of your body pulling on that one hand—out of the air and into an atmosphere in which you cannot breathe. This is what fish experience when they are hooked for “sport.”

How's that for a healthy debate! :D

Gee, with a comment like that I would have expected you from LA or Manhattan.

Why are compassionate individuals only from those cities?

If you're going to tell me that hunting is bad, I hope that you're vegetarian. I think raising masses of animals on a farm in shit conditions with no hope in life but to be slaughtered is a bit worse, but believe what you want, I know I'm not going to change your mind.

Yes I am vegetarian... wouldn't want to be accused of being a hypocrite! :wink:

And yes, factory farming is one of the most horrible human conjured institutions.... ever. I have visited a number and horrors are unreal. It's the reason I became vegetarian in the first place.

Doh!! So Slide IS a vegitarian....Getting interesting girls and boys!! Kinda kills that huh.. Props to Slide..
Anyway

I used to hunt alot..Dont really have time anymore and plus I dont care for Venison either.. WAY to tough for my taste..I've always been fond of Cow though...And Pig is a close second... As far as the Debate goes.. I do believe there should be Hunting For the reasons already stated... But Common Slide, Hunting Humans because of the overpopulation problem? WTF dude.. You gotta come up with something better than that...and No, Its not the same... There's that whole ability to reason thing..lol

It's all so much clearer to me now.
+1 on the props to Slide for taking the knocks. You are one who stands behind your convictions, and I have nothing but respect for you. I happen to disagree with your views on this subject. But hey, it's all good. After all, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one - and if we didn't, we would all be full of shit. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Geez, I ran over a squirrel last week on my 599. He kinda got squished by my back tire. Bad timing on his part, Although I didn't exactly swerve to miss him.
Does this make me a bad person?

But Common Slide, Hunting Humans because of the overpopulation problem? WTF dude..

I was drawing a parallel to illustrate the blunt & obtuse approach of culling.

There's that whole ability to reason thing...

Actually many mammals possess complex reasoning skills which the US & European scientific community acknowledged as far back as the 60s. It's convenient for people adopt these sort of outdated perceptions in order to justify killing them whether it be for sport of to fill their bellies. Don't want people to feel bad about it... do we? :roll:

Gee, with a comment like that I would have expected you from LA or Manhattan.

Actually, people in here in LA like to kill other people for sport.

According to the bible it's the possession of a soul that sets us apart from the animals and grants us dominion over them.

Are you also an Atheist?

You got a leather jacket Slide?

Honestly, this debate wasn't supposed to be a debate if I'm not mistaken?

And no offense to anyone from LA or Manhattan, just my general perception as someone from the midwest who sees self-rightous elitists campaigning against the majority under the pretenses of animal rights.

And honestly, I don't hunt. I just support the rights of those who do.

Ok, ok...Maybe its so slide... But until the animals gang up and start fighting back..we'll still hunt them..lol

Wouldn't that make hunting so much more awesome? Actually, hogs will charge you, so if you don't knock them down, it could end up being slightly painful...

:shock: I can see it now... " We're Being flanked by O'possum's and the Racoon's are on full frontal Attack...TAKE COVER!!!"

Ok, ok...Maybe its so slide... But until the animals gang up and start fighting back..we'll still hunt them..lol
That sounds like a kick ass movie. Anyone script writers on here?

According to the bible it's the possession of a soul that sets us apart from the animals and grants us dominion over them.

Are you also an Atheist?

Ah, Genesis 1: 24-26... a fine passage. Do not confuse dominion with oppression. The references in these verses refer to Man taking care of God's creatures, not killing them for fun or mass-breeding them to satiate our gluttony.

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that they may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. How did we get from there to shooting them out of the sky for sport? Or cramming them into factory farming cages for KFC buckets?

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind... and it was so. How did we get from there to let's shove as many as possible into a factory building, condemn them to short, brutal lives of suffering before being horribly slaughtered to find it's way into someone's bloated gut? Or how did we get to hiding in a tree with a shot-gun and blowing a hole through one of God's creatures?

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion... Where in the whole sorry spectacle of killing animals for fun or gluttony, or skinning animals for coats, or ambushing and killing bear's for their gall bladders (and so on and so on), do you find man in the likeness of God?

...to satiate our gluttony...
As I stare down at the extra 10 pounds I've put on this summer...
I feel sooo dirty. :lol: :lol:

Kids, just remember there is no definitive answer or solution. Express your view point but please continue to be polite and careful enough to do so with out attacking someone else’s equally valid opinion.

Thanks.

I've never hunted. Although I can agree with it in concept (eat what you shoot) and could probably get into the mechanics of it...I think I don't have the stomach for the actual kill. Kinda pussy and hypocritical when I think about it but unfortunately then I gotta deal with the feelings side of it - and it isn't for me. I'd be wondering if there was some Mrs. Deer out there waiting for him... :cry:

Yeah, Mrs. Deer and stuff. :cry: My mom told me the frog I blew up with a firecracker was probably on its way home to its babies.

Yeah, Mrs. Deer and stuff. :cry: My mom told me the frog I blew up with a firecracker ws probably on its way home to its babies.

Good 'ol mom. She's always there to make you feel guilty about doing something wrong. :|

I parked on the side of the road one day to stop and help a turtle get across the road. The angle of the hill I had stopped at left my bike sitting STRAIGHT UP even though I had it on its sidestand. I saw a car coming so I picked up the turtle and ran back to my bike and hopped on it just as the car was passing us. THE BIKE FELL OVER we me still on it! ...And the bike CRUSHED THE TURTLE!!!

Ah, now it's all starting to make sense. Your willingness to help the turtle across the street was to perhaps, in part, make up for the frog... unfortunately for the poor guy, it didn't work out as you had hoped. :(

You got a leather jacket Slide?

No.

And no offense to anyone from LA or Manhattan, just my general perception as someone from the midwest who sees self-rightous elitists campaigning against the majority under the pretenses of animal rights.

Majority? Less than 5% of the US population hunts.

There is nothing in it for people who educate others on animal well-being except that maybe it changes people's perceptions and saves the lives and unnecessary suffering of animals.

And remember, once upon a time, the "majority" thought the world was flat. :wink:

Soooooo mild winter we're having so far...eh? :lol:

lmao rnd.... Hey , I think this is a great debate... I can see both sides TBH.. And it is what It is... I do have to say though... I'm impressed with you Slide... Not many would stick up like that, and you apparently take it to heart ..I admire that..

Even if only 5% of the population hunts (???), I'd bet 99% eats meat, thus, hunting by proxy.
-Besides, hunting has a side benefit. It prepares us for when it all goes bad....and it will go bad!

You can't possibly use the Bible to make hunting immoral. My bible is at work where I've been reading it so I can't take exact quotes today.

There were honorable hunters in the bible. Like the son of Isac ( I want to say his name was Ensu, but my spelling is off) He hunted deer. Jesus himself ate meat. Animals were created for us to use. They are our food.

Do you remember all the sacrifices made in the old testement? Many sheep, goats, and the like were killed at altars for God himself.

In Michigan if you don't hunt deer they die a slow death of starvation. The fact that hippies hate it makes me want to go do it more :P

Even if only 5% of the population hunts (???), I'd bet 99% eats meat, thus, hunting by proxy.
I don't really think slaughtering masses of cows, pigs, and chickens in pens really counts as hunting. They's some good eatin' tho :wink:

As far as one of the original controversies of this topic, I don't think there really is a distinct line between hunting and killing animals for fun/entertainment. What I'm tyrin to say is, "fun/entertainment" doesn't necessarily mean that it is of a perverse nature (although I'm sure Slide would disagree). But the fact of the matter is, unless you're a nomadic tribesperson, if you didn't get any enjoyment out of hunting, you wouldn't do it. Now I'm not against hunting, but I think that people who do should own up to the fact that they do because they enjoy it.

Are you really that concerned with deer overpopulation/starvation when you're just about to shoot it in the head?

I fish because I think it's fun. I buy fish at the store cuz I'm hungry.

Hunting as a sport... Sports are for fun/entertainment.

You can't possibly use the Bible to make hunting immoral.

It is the source quote for the idea of dominion that was raised. I was merely addressing it and reviewing the passage in today's context.

In Michigan if you don't hunt deer they die a slow death of starvation.

Hmmm, strange... deer must know where boarders and state lines are? What's different about Michigan? First it's over-population... now it's starvation... thank God for hunters!

The fact that hippies hate it makes me want to go do it more :P

You'll have to admit that in confession! :lol:

When I said "hunting by proxy", perhaps I should have said "killing by proxy"- I think it's not the hunting part that bothers people, it's the killing part. If one goes to the store to buy meat/fish, they are just paying someone else to do the killing (the proxy part)....nice and clean, no face attached.
I enjoy hunting/fishing. I eat what I get, and have great respect for the life taken.
I have no problem with vegetarians. To each their own.
I think I'll go clean my 12 Ga. now.
WOW!, I joined this forum to bee ess about my Honda.....how'd I get wrapped up in this??? There's just too much to say for such a slow typist like me. Hunt and peck...oops....did I say hunt? :run

Slide,

Deer are overpopulated because there plenty of food in the spring and now there is none come winter. Would you like to see deer starve to death over weeks? or die in the matter of a few seconds?

We are their only predator now. So we might was well fulfill that duty.

BTW if you like soy-based anything think about where that is grown. Farm fields (especially in wisconsin).. where the trees were torn down, therefore creating a great habitat/food source for deer (they like the edge of fields) and creating the overpopulation problem.

So I blame You for all the deer. Just kidding, but think about that for a second when eating your tofu-dog. No hard-feelings dude.

Deer are overpopulated because there plenty of food in the spring and now there is none come winter. Would you like to see deer starve to death over weeks? or die in the matter of a few seconds?

Starvation and disease are unfortunate, but they are nature’s way of ensuring that the strong survive. Natural predators help keep prey species strong by killing only the sick and weak. Hunters, however, kill any animal they come across or any animal whose head they think would look good mounted above the fireplace—often the large, healthy animals needed to keep the population strong. And hunting creates the ideal conditions for overpopulation. After hunting season, the abrupt drop in population leads to less competition among survivors, resulting in a higher birth rate.

If we were really concerned about keeping animals from starving, we would not hunt but instead take steps to reduce the animals’ fertility. We would also preserve wolves, mountain lions, coyotes, and other natural predators. Ironically, many deer herds and duck populations are purposely manipulated to produce more and more animals for hunters to kill.

BTW if you like soy-based anything think about where that is grown. Farm fields (especially in wisconsin).. where the trees were torn down, therefore creating a great habitat/food source for deer (they like the edge of fields) and creating the overpopulation problem.

Far more farm land is used for the various grains used to feed livestock. Growing all the crops to feed farmed animals requires massive amounts of water and land—in fact, nearly half of the water and 80 percent of the agricultural land in the United States is used to raise animals for food.

Touché sir. I belive we can put this behind us and unite in our cause to promote the elusive and endangered American Naked Honda.

Ok with the good book in hand I'd like to dismantle your argument. Did you really read the bible or did you just look for some online quotes posted be PETA? :lol:

Gen 1:28 ...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moved upon the earth.

This tells me that we own the animals, they were made for us. But what for you ask? That's very clear in this next line.

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the eart wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Yup, that's right, they were given to use for MEAT! Mmm warm savory meat. :)

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, wellig in tents.

Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

I could go on forever, but I'd risk putting readers to sleep.

So you want to manipulate fertility? How? Cut their balls off? Use chemicals that could have unintended outcomes? For what? The system as it stands works. There isn't anything evil about it.

LOL I cant believe this thread has came to this :popcorn

I guess I should've eaten that frog I blew up with the firecracker. At least its legs.

I guess I should've eaten that frog I blew up with the firecracker. At least its legs.

That would've been the humane thing to do. :P

I used to kill all kinds of animals when I was a kid...dogs, cats, skunks, squerls, birds, bums you name it I killed it.

don't know about other states but here in CA about 60% of the money that nature conservation gets is from hunters, hunting tax. It used to be closer to 80% until the state made it too restrictive to hunt. And yes since the drop in this percentage there was also a drop in the amount of money that went to preservation. So the animal lover laws made it worse for the animals.

And it continues... I thought VooDooYouDo had wrapped things up quite nicely! :D I'll address the "dismantling" of my argument and then I must retire from this debate as it seems to have run its course.

Ok with the good book in hand I'd like to dismantle your argument. Did you really read the bible or did you just look for some online quotes posted be PETA?

I referred to the Bible to address the post regarding the idea of dominion and also referred to Matthew Scully's "Dominion" – an excellent read.

This tells me that we own the animals, they were made for us. But what for you ask? That's very clear in this next line.

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the eart wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

I think you have misinterpreted the verse or you have the "meat lovers" version :lol:. Genesis 1:30 speaks about God providing plants for all living creatures to nourish themselves not as a garnish to eat them with!!! :lol: "...every green herb for meat" means plants for the animals to eat... meat meaning food not literally animal flesh! And in Genesis 1:29 (which you conveniently left out), God provides humanity with plants as nourishment and the means to grow them.

(1:29) Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. (1:30) And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground – everything that has the breath of life in it – I give every green plant for food.

So you want to manipulate fertility? How? Cut their balls off? Use chemicals that could have unintended outcomes? For what? The system as it stands works. There isn't anything evil about it.

I prefer to argue using facts and studies rather than hearsay & conjecture. Your opinion is your opinion but several recent studies suggest that sterilization is an effective, long-term solution to overpopulation. In a previous post, I noted why hunting is ineffective at controlling populations – hunters do not abide by natural selection. A method called TNR (trap, neuter, and return) has been tried on deer in Ithaca, N.Y., and an experimental birth-control vaccine is being used on female deer in Princeton, N.J. One Georgia study of 1,500 white-tailed deer on Cumberland Island concluded that “if females are captured, marked, and counted, sterilization reduces herd size, even at relatively low annual sterilization rates.”

Like you I could go on and on... there are thousands of independent and US & international government sponsored studies and scientific facts that condemn hunting as a means of population control (none of these studies benefit anyone except the animals which is important to note). It is, after all, hunting that created the problem in the first place!

So why don't we leave it there?

:clap

Here we are, blazing new paths... Personally, I think both y’alls footing is about as firm as a wet noodle...

Interpreting verses from The Good Book? Serious? (Steve - the worst move ever and it was your opener!) Even Popes disagree from one papacy to the next on numerous points... The heads of each branch don’t agree... and how many “branches” Christianity are there...? (wait, egg-->chicken-->egg... :? ) And y’all gonna end it here?

Check yourselves before you wreck yourselves. Everyone's opinion is valid.

Not for nothing Steve, my tactic: let’s go straight to the “Gold” standard: Did Jesus/Popes eat meat? And how did it get there? Ok so The Good Book gives thumbs up to "harvesting" and eating animals. And I’m sure he used animal hides in some fashion – not least of which all the leather bound Bibles... so all good there too.

The real issue: “Is it ok to kill only for sport?”

I'd hope for humanity's sake that it doesn't take a book to realize all living things should be treated with compassion and respect no matter what their purpose here on earth ends up being. Also, the management and use of all resources, living or not, should strive to be efficient but not to be efficient for wastefulness’ sake. However look around. In my opinion, humanity is starting to show some wear from all the hammer blows thru time. Ironically (in context of our argument) many people treat animals far better than their fellow human beings...

Welcome to the realm of philosophy... is a pathogen just as valid a life as a panda or my papa? I think there are better places on the internet to pursue this and if any of you truly have the passion or zeal, I encourage y’all to seek it out. It'd be nice if everyone kept the zeal here on how ugly (or not) the new Hornet really is, worthy conversation even if we aren’t getting it anyway. It is Honda599,com after all :wink:

Never the less, please keep it above board and stick to presenting your own ideas with supporting points. No name calling or pouting, no trash talking, baiting or stirring the pot. Gentlemen, let's keep this a bloodless sport of debate.

For me in general terms: I’d find it difficult to kill. I don’t have any issue if someone enjoys hunting as long as it is done responsibly, fairly, humanely and the kill gets used, at the very least – to feed someone(s) – chiefly me. And yes, ideally not to gluttony. What’s that saying “Enough is just as good as a feast!"

In my opinion its stayed pretty darn clean... Best debate on the net right now IMO. 8)

Nice little rant there rnd..As always :thumbsup And I'll TRY to refrain from "stirring the Pot" with a very related issue.. :D

It'd be nice if everyone kept the zeal here on how ugly (or not) the new Hornet really is, worthy conversation even if we aren’t getting it anyway. It is Honda599,com after all :wink:

I'm guessing that's why SSS posted this in "Off Topic"....

Slide, you left out the fact that all these biblical heros had flocks (not for a petting zoon) they killed animals and ate animals. They were hunters, they survived off the land (as my examples showed). Yes animals were giving plants to eat. Animals also eat other animals. Should we train lions to eat vegetables instead?

Why did God ask them to kill animals as sacrifice to him. Why did Jesus eat fish?

I didn't start the bible thing, but I think it's you that have interpreted it wrong and the majority of Christians are not vegetarians. How many pastors and priest don't eat meat because they think it's forbiden in the good book? I don't know of any.

Never the less, please keep it above board and stick to presenting your own ideas with supporting points. No name calling or pouting, no trash talking, baiting or stirring the pot. Gentlemen, let's keep this a bloodless sport of debate.


Hey, I'm having fun. I like to debate things with friends. I don't see any mean spirits here. Do you?

I think we've kept to our points which makes sparring fun. Maybe you're reading my tone wrong.

As for killing just to kill stuff. I don't know anyone who does that. I think non-hunters stereotype hunters as these mean people who enjoy seeing pain in other creatures. I used as much of the deer as possible and all responsible hunters do. I guess there are a-holes in every niche of people but for the most part they take it seriously and have a deep respect for wildlife in general.

Here's a wild tangent for you.
Not that the critters don't need a voice to speak for them, but can't you find something more worthwhile to champion.

Darfur?

Sudan?

Nuclear proliferation?

Helping flood, earthquake, volcano, tidal wave.....victims in some of the most impoverished regions of the world?

Any one of the dozens of other example's of man's inhumanity to man?

Steve, absolutely not. It's been very civil round here...just wanna make sure it stay that way :wink: Here on the board, the emotion behind the words isn't always clear...so again was just reminding for reminders sake.

I for one love to yak about insanely indefinable concepts but this is treading into "button" issue territory so...anyway...Coolio and kudos to all involved.

Slide...I did kinda notice it's in the "off topic" but lets not loose site that it is OFF TOPIC :P The zeal and passion, for the most part, should be focused on topic... As I said, if anyone feels that passionately about this, or anything non "Hornet's Nest USA", I'm sure one could find a better suited forum to take the conversation. I'm not telling you to I'm just making an observation. I'm all for fun conversation.

Seetrout - The effort it would take for me to find heart breaking suffering, not in concept or the NPR BBC kind of way, but real face to face suffering... I can find it 100 times on my 35 minute drive to work with no effort. I face it every time I go down town and 10 homeless people asked me for change and I must say no to nine because I gave it all to the first. I see it almost every time I half to take the city busses. I hope we all find what moves us, and take some action. It is sad that any of this is going on, that anyone is homeless, jobless, hungry, abused, sick... We must each do what we can afford. Not only monetarily but emotionally. If I open my heart up to all the suffering that there is in the world, I should think I'd die from the sorrow. I can barely handle walking the halls of the hospital when visiting. Ashamed that I can’t or don’t do anything for all the faces suffering in the individual rooms...alone. After one particular week of visits, I applied to be a “candy striper,” half way thru I realized I don’t have the kind of heart it takes to look those people in the eyes. My soul would break. And I thank God that there are those who do have the heart, they make it look so easy. So, I look for how I can help. Darfur, Sudan, Nuclear proliferation...I vote and am an informed citizen, what more can I do? We had an anti-war rally in Orlando a couple of weeks back (was a national gig, 8 or 9 cities) and was made to feel like a traitor and second class citizen by the anti-anti-war protestors (who the fuck is PRO war?) but still was glad to add one voice. I give my time to some charities and some extra money I have also. Help neighbors. Could I do more? Yes, probably very few of us couldn’t. Is it fair to ride a 599, a luxury in any sense, while there are sick and hungry still around? The price of that bike could go far in the third world. We each must find our level of comfort with the issue.

SO, yada yada yada, at issue here and now is "huntin".

Oh Steve, the only real "kill" for the "kill" I can think of is like big game hunters... or Trophy hunters. Did you know there is a whole organization for the confirmation of killing one each of all "big game"? I think there is a plaque or something if you do and the point is to see who can complete it the fastest/youngest. (Insane. to me. But then I have people tell me all the time that riding a bike is insane.)

First, a hearty "good job" to all, for keeping the debate civil, despite its wild deviation from the thread's intended question. (In my opinion.)

Second, one of my favorite bumper stickers: "I love animals. They're delicious."

Third, my hunting status: I haven't hunted in a number of years (college seems to take us away from some things we like to do, and into others), and I didn't do a good job of it. I liked duck hunting, but I hate cold weather. Time in the woods on a chilly November morning waiting for deer to wander by is some of the most peaceful time we can spend. How do I know? I got a heck of a good nap in, sitting there waiting for deer to wander by. Currently, I hunt paper targets (generally easy to see, and they hold still nicely) and the corresponding expended casings.

Fourth, my contribution: As for the bit about hunters only looking for the animals that would look nice over the mantle: I have to disagree. Admittedly, this stereotype may apply to a [significant] portion of the hunters out there (remember, there are multiple "types of hunters" just as there are multiple "types of bikers" just as there are multiple types of [insert class description here]), but the more responsible hunters manage their hunting areas well.

They know the populations of their hunt areas, counting (and often estimating) the counts of males and females, and making records of the animals seen. Such records include locations, time of day, sex, estimated age, size, visual condition, etc. In the case of the deer hunters I know, these guys know what deer are in the area and in what sort of shape they are. These guys get to know their deer, being able to discern one deer from the other.

They know where the sick ones are, and can work to remove them from the population. And they often let the big healthy bucks go, so as to better provide for a healthy population. And these fellows set minimum body size / rack sizes, so as to keep the young healthy bucks from being removed too soon.

They eat what they take, and they share it with others. There is little waste, and no animal killed is left in the woods. I don't think I saw any mention of Hunters for the Hungry previously in this thread. It's a worthwhile organization, helping provide meals for those in economic hardship while at the same time helping to manage the health of the herd.

Someone mentioned eating squirrel: it's okay, but not something I'd often ask for. My grandmother loved making squirrel gravy, however, and we loved eating it. Squirrels, like rabbits and other relatively small animals, are a lot of work for what you get out of it.

Ducks and geese can make great meals, and good soup. Be sure to get all the pellets out first, or get a painful surprise. And have a good strong stomach: cleaning them is messy, and geese STINK!

Venison: you have to cook it right (no, I don't always succeed at that), but it's a very low-fat meat. Some doctors even recommend it instead of beef. It's been a long while since I had bear. It's dark and tough, and that's all I remember about it.

Cow is readily available (in the grocery store) and it's the meat I choose most. Though my wife's uncle raises beef cattle and we get some of that from time to time. It's great. I like a pork chop now and then, and I'm a big fan of bacon -- but pork is on my table in VERY limited doses.

That's where I stand... not that anybody cared. :roll:

I hunt for places that serve fried chicken. I love to eat scrambled chicken eggs. Man, I'll eat the hell out of a chicken. 'Specially, the titty.

I hunt for places that serve fried chicken. I love to eat scrambled chicken eggs. Man, I'll eat the hell out of a chicken. 'Specially, the titty.

So we go from elaborating on deep emotional human suffering to talking about titties. I love this place! :D

All I have to say is a simple quote from the TV show Titus.

"The men in our family don't need guns son. We have penises."

I'm considering becoming a reserve, partially so my dad will give me his spare Glock to use (and partially for great pay for a part-time job)... perhaps I'm lacking?

I just thought this would be appropriate for this thread: :lol:

http://cruisemusic.biz/pix/GodsCreatures.jpg



...and just to keep it "fair and balanced" :wink:

http://www.vegetus.org/vegtoon/shall.gif

Colonel Sanders at the Pearly Gates...

http://www.vegetus.org/vegtoon/kfc.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just something I saw today...

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1683688,00.html

Rick Wilson founded his Maryland-based ministry, Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry (FHFH), 10 years ago while on a hunting trip in Virginia, soon after he witnessed a poverty-stricken woman collecting road-kill in the woods. After soliciting tens of thousands of dollars in donations, Wilson and volunteers began providing what Wilson calls "God-given resources" to the homeless. The organization has since branched out to 26 states, with more than 100 chapters. "We see ourselves not as a hunting organization, but as a feeding ministry," says Wilson, who is now FHFH's executive director.

Funny debate. I don't have ethical problems with hunting, I just don't find it enjoyable. And I agree, catch and release while better environmentally doesn't mean the fish enjoy it although I used to. And quoting the bible and living by it, not for this roman catholic who scoffs at religion. Not to be too insulting but I'd rather practice buddhism, at least I'd get the breathing and zen thing. Works great when losing a line around a nasty turn, LOL. Bottom line, hunters and outdoorsmen have more insight and need to protect the environment than the average self righteous urbanite. The deer need to be culled somehow and so far the only practical way is to hunt them. I'd rather be hunting QUAIL if you get me drift, even though the wife disapproves and I have as much luck as Homer in a room full of hot librarians.

I couldn't hunt but I have no problem for those who hunt legally for food or even for the sporting aspect. Have at it, boys - especially for the excess deer!

Slide, though not entirely on topic (of this Off Topic :run ) I thought you may find this interesting to read... http://www.slate.com/id/2179086/nav/ais//

Hahaha this is the best thing I've seen in quite some time...

Done got pwned --->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD5zjUbWpXY

I saw that guy saying in an interview that he teased the deer in order to get it to attack him so he could catch it on video. It worked. He sure got his ass kicked.

He's lucky he didn't get an antler in the eye. He fights like a girl! :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


That shit is just TOO FUNNY. Ya think he would have used the gun instead of taking such an ass kicking. Score one for the deer for once!

If I wanted to hunt, I'd use this...

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080117/ShootingKitty1_540x405.jpg

I think the animals are on to the whole camo thing. Maybe hunting with a pink gun might be a good idea. When the critters fall on their arses laughing, you could pump 'em full o' lead.

BTW, How did all the hunters do this season?
I only got out to the duck blind a few times this season. Got a few mallards and a couple sea ducks, and a lot cold. Dropped my 12ga in the marsh mud. :cry:
A bit slow over all, but a very good time non the less. :D

I went duck hunting when I was a kid. Didn't get to shoot anything but my uncle had me and my friend retrieve the ones they knocked out of the sky. Of course none of them were dead so we had to wring their necks to finish them off. Killing something that big with your bare hands when you're a kid was an interesting experience to say the least. Can't say I'd ever do it again, unless I'm really hungry and the bread lines get too long.

The only ducks I ever managed to kill were on my old nintendo entertainment system.

Man I really hated that dog when I missed one!

Yeah, games used to taunt you more back in the day. Remember Punch Out? All the guys would do a really annoying laugh after they beat you. I almost threw my NES out the window a few times.