If you browse through photos of DealsGap, there are some rider that don't seem to have good form. Some riders have a knee down but don't have that much lean. Well this exemplifies that form. Check the link.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/th_KneeDown.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/?action=view&current=KneeDown.flv)

I think some of what you're seeing there is the bike/tire combo.
If he leans that bike over any farther on knobbies he'll lose it, so the only way to get more corner speed without leaning the bike is to get off the side.

He could also not be leaning into the corner yet. The picture could be taken before the turn. He's set in the saddle to take the turn, but has yet to make the actual lean.

Hey Mitch, it a video. click on it. There are other photos in Kilboy, ZeePhoto and Moonshine.

He's most likely going dead dead slow and 'kneeing down' for the photographer or as I suggest, hanging off the bike and doesn't need to.

Here's a clip of a KTM that I was chasing that same day. He doesn't hang off the bike yet is moving right along cause I trying to stay with him. We were going at an average pace, cops about and slow traffic ahead.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/th_KTM_0001.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/?action=view&current=KTM_0001.flv)

I was chasing this guy on a Buell Firebolt last month. He was moving on and had the knee down. I saw sparks from his knee puck on one curve. And one point here is that with my bike's standard riding position, I'll not be having a knee down.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/DGCollage1.jpg

Regarding the original sequence: New-B

Of course we've all looked a bit silly when we 1st started.

wow, I stand corrected. That guy definitely had no reason to be hanging off his bike like that. He just looks goofy.

Regarding the original sequence: New-B

Maybe his daily rider is a 1098 and he just wanted to take 'er easy that day...

IMHO, you cannot compare yourself with the riders on the Buell and the KTM because you have different styles.

When it comes to lean/turn there are three commonly accepted styles:
- English (tomacana's 599): The body in the bike's axis, you lean with the bike and only hang off if you need to. No knees out.
- Regular or GP (Buell): Keep the bike upright as much as you can by hanging off the bike. Knees are out in order to put more weight off the center of mass.
- Supermoto/motoX (KTM, kinda): Lean the bike and stay upright. Foot out and ahead to help if about to loose the bike.

In street/track riding, it is said that the GP style is more efficient because the speed through turn is higher.

I thought that was the purpose of hanging off... to increase corner speed without increasing lean angle. Even if you don't drag your knee, it would still be more stable at a mild pace.

**deleted see next post**

Ack.. it just occurred to me that I got a bit carried away and wrote a whole bunch of babble regarding leaning, hanging off, etc..

Then I realized (as was eluded to earlier).. the original pic is a bike w/ tires that are practically square.. so maybe you do have to lean that much to make it turn!!

:lol:

Oh well...

And yes carlitos_92 I shouldn't judge a book so quickly :-)

I can't tell and don't know if anyone else can, but is the KTM rider putting his foot out?

That Firebolt rider is out there and leaning. Were the two of you going at similar speeds? I am asking because I saw someone on a Firebolt riding in front of me sometime back. He took off and was leaning at angles I could not match on my 599. I am certain he was going faster but the lean angle just seemed so much more intense than I was willing to explore.

I wasn't competing but it was fun to watch.

I can't tell and don't know if anyone else can, but is the KTM rider putting his foot out?

That Firebolt rider is out there and leaning. Were the two of you going at similar speeds? I am asking because I saw someone on a Firebolt riding in front of me sometime back. He took off and was leaning at angles I could not match on my 599. I am certain he was going faster but the lean angle just seemed so much more intense than I was willing to explore.

I wasn't competing but it was fun to watch.

The KTM rider was riding much like we do on the 599 and no he did not have is foot off the pegs.

I had caught up with the Buell because he was slowed down in Harley traffic, Then when he took off I stayed with him the rest of the way. The pictures are both of us as we went by the photographer and I was leaning pretty much as he was. He may have gained a few yards in a few series of
curves but I would close back in. That was the day I scrubbed the chicken strips off my Metzlers.

Motorico if you didn't see this video montage, check it out. It's my rides at the Hwy 129. I have Rndthough in there from last year, a friend on a VFR and at the end the stop action of the Buell with a 599 chasing.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/th_3dd60c76.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/?action=view&current=3dd60c76.pbr)
Chicken Strips or lack thereof
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/tomacana/?action=view&current=strips.jpg

If you browse through photos of DealsGap, there are some rider that don't seem to have good form. Some riders have a knee down but don't have that much lean. Well this exemplifies that form. Check the link.

Sure he looks like he's going slow, and given his apparent speed, his leaning off the bike is horribly unecessary, but this guy's body positioning and form isn't what is necessarily bad.

What is VERY bad however, is how he crosses the double yellow line mid-corner. Very noob move. Don't ever do it unless you're passing (which is still illegal, but oh well).

I don't know if it is knee out, leaning with the bike or what...but I sure am jealous of the people who get to ride 'Deals Gap', looks like a whole bunch of a fun ride!

If you browse through photos of DealsGap, there are some rider that don't seem to have good form. Some riders have a knee down but don't have that much lean. Well this exemplifies that form. Check the link.

Sure he looks like he's going slow, and given his apparent speed, his leaning off the bike is horribly unecessary, but this guy's body positioning and form isn't what is necessarily bad.

What is VERY bad however, is how he crosses the double yellow line mid-corner. Very noob move. Don't ever do it unless you're passing (which is still illegal, but oh well).

Agreed.. and with such bad form (which makes the bike unstable) he ain't gonna correct himself very smoothly if a vehicle starts coming form the other direction.

I just think his roids were acting up and he was off the seat to relieive the pressure. :D

I just think his roids were acting up and he was off the seat to relieive the pressure. :D

I think you may be on to something.
Roids are the dire affliction of Harley riders. Otherwise they'd be perfect a-holes.

The knee thing is more of a novelty. And on a public road, border line stupidity.

The knee thing is more of a novelty. And on a public road, border line stupidity.

specially without knee pucks! :!: