Riding to work this morning I was thinking a bit about how my riding style has evolved, even just in the last couple of years. I think I've become a much safer rider, but also perhaps more of an aggressive rider.

For example, there were times when in traffic I would hang well back of a vehicle that was beside and in front of me, not wanting to get caught in the blind spot. I've noticed that now I'm being a bit more aggressive and will actually PASS vehicles to stay away from the a-pillar. I was just trying to think of other examples of safe but aggressive riding. Would you say you are more of a defensive rider, or an aggressive rider -- and are the two mutually exclusive?

I believe the best defense is a good offense... so no, they are not mutually exclusive. An aggressive pass may get you out of a logjam that could have been dangerous. Thus, the aggressive move was part of a defensive strategy.

You gotta be both. It really depends on the situation.

Driving my cage I'm pretty much just aggressive, but since there's such a radical change in the consequences riding a bike, I add a good dose of defensiveness to my repertoire when on two wheels.

See, I appreciate that Alexander. I'm just the opposite though. In my car I'm pretty sedate actually, and I suppose drive pretty defensively. On the bike, I agree there are times when there are no 'escape routes' that I will settle down into a defensive mode, but I feel safer when I'm riding a bit more aggressively, not offensively, but just 'intentionally' if that makes any sense.

See, I appreciate that Alexander. I'm just the opposite though. In my car I'm pretty sedate actually, and I suppose drive pretty defensively. On the bike, I agree there are times when there are no 'escape routes' that I will settle down into a defensive mode, but I feel safer when I'm riding a bit more aggressively, not offensively, but just 'intentionally' if that makes any sense.

I'm not saying I ride strictly 'defensively' on the bike, just that I ride more defensively then in my car. I definitely agree with you that in many situations on the bike intentional aggressive moves are often the best option.

I suppose if I really think about it, by 'defensive' bike riding I mean shedding mph and covering the brakes while crossing an intersection (especially with right/left turners in the wings), or switching lanes to move away from blind alleys/entries...etc, things I generally don't consider much while caging. Even passing cars quickly so as to minimize time in their blind-spots is really a defensively (aggressively defensive?) move to me.

Like a pair of scissors, you need both.

yet women have a pair of panties, but only one bra...

I think i tend to ride a little more on the aggressive side for a couple reason, while people might think, "damn, look at that stupid punk on his crotchrocket" that means they've seen me. But along with Alexander, passing cars a little faster than I would in the cage, and covering the brake, and constantly scanning the intersection as I cross it...

For me it depends on traffic and my mood.. I have days where I'm humping the gas tank screaming at my bike to go faster and days I'm convinced people are trying to kill me.
I tend to ride at least 14mph over and keep an eye on people changing lanes like a chiwawa with ADD.

Defensively aggressive. Or maybe i'm aggressively defensive. Either way i am usually falling back and sorta watching the madness ahead and all around or hotfootin' it to get the hell away from it all.

My take is that we all become more aggressive the longer it has been since the last accident. Then we realize we should have been defensive all along. The longer we ride "safe", the more chances we end up taking.

I'm not saying I'm strictly defensive. In fact, I probably take more chances because I split lanes constantly. I just try and remind myself to slow down and enjoy the ride. Keep the aggrssion to a minimum.

I do not believe "aggressive" and "defensive" are mutually exclusive.

I am constantly getting more defensive, particularly because of the shit I see on the crowded freeways every day.

That defensiveness has also carried over to the car. I also believe I am a more sedate cage-driver now because I get my jollies on the bike. There's really no reason to flog the Fit when I have a bike that will do 60 in less than 4 seconds and will hit 120 mph "by accident." :mrgreen:

But... I am getting more aggressive towards people "in the wrong." If I feel like you may endanger my life, I get away from you. If you do endanger my life, I do my best to let you know, and then I get away from you. Loudly.

I do not believe "aggressive" and "defensive" are mutually exclusive.

I am constantly getting more defensive, particularly because of the shit I see on the crowded freeways every day.

That defensiveness has also carried over to the car. I also believe I am a more sedate cage-driver now because I get my jollies on the bike. There's really no reason to flog the Fit when I have a bike that will do 60 in less than 4 seconds and will hit 120 mph "by accident." :mrgreen:

But... I am getting more aggressive towards people "in the wrong." If I feel like you may endanger my life, I get away from you. If you do endanger my life, I do my best to let you know, and then I get away from you. Loudly.

Exactly!!

I do not believe "aggressive" and "defensive" are mutually exclusive.

I am constantly getting more defensive, particularly because of the shit I see on the crowded freeways every day.

That defensiveness has also carried over to the car. I also believe I am a more sedate cage-driver now because I get my jollies on the bike. There's really no reason to flog the Fit when I have a bike that will do 60 in less than 4 seconds and will hit 120 mph "by accident." :mrgreen:

But... I am getting more aggressive towards people "in the wrong." If I feel like you may endanger my life, I get away from you. If you do endanger my life, I do my best to let you know, and then I get away from you. Loudly.

I have been daydreaming of carrying an air horn with me. I'd sound it when I see morons on the phone. I wonder if I can fit a big foghorn on my car...

Or a directional bass speaker. Boom, boom, rattle, shake while they are on the phone.

I have been daydreaming of carrying an air horn with me. I'd sound it when I see morons on the phone. I wonder if I can fit a big foghorn on my car...

Or a directional bass speaker. Boom, boom, rattle, shake while they are on the phone.

I want to start another forum competition. If enough people are interested, I'll create a new thread.

Are you ready for the competition? Here it is:

See how many cellphone conversations you can get mentioned in while riding.

:mrgreen:

So, obviously we'll be on the honor system since we can't hear what the people are saying... But yesterday, I made a guy roll his window up. One point for me. ("I'd like to thank the academy, second gear..." Seriously, who drives around in 100F weather, on the phone, WITH THE WINDOW DOWN?)

Anyway, it might not do much for the sport of motorcycling, but it could be fun... Who's playing? :-P

I have been daydreaming of carrying an air horn with me. I'd sound it when I see morons on the phone. I wonder if I can fit a big foghorn on my car...

Or a directional bass speaker. Boom, boom, rattle, shake while they are on the phone.

Time for a train horn...

Time for a train horn...

Wouldn't that be sweet? I would just hold that button down until they hung up.

indeed that would be awesome... I would gladly give up being allowed to talk on the phone in the car if it meant other people couldn't do it...

No need for an air horn or a train horn. Just do like I did and install a Stebel Nautilus!

There's really no reason to flog the Fit when I have a bike that will do 60 in less than 4 seconds and will hit 120 mph "by accident." :mrgreen:

at 117hp you can't really flog a Fit :)
and whats with the paddle shifters?

at 117hp you can't really flog a Fit :)
and whats with the paddle shifters?

Dude, if it has a throttle, you can flog it. My parents had a Volvo 240DL Diesel in the 80's that would lay one MOTHER of a scratch! Flogged! :mrgreen:

The paddle shifters are useless on a slushbox. Not even fun...

Dude, if it has a throttle, you can flog it. My parents had a Volvo 240DL Diesel in the 80's that would lay one MOTHER of a scratch! Flogged! :mrgreen:

The paddle shifters are useless on a slushbox. Not even fun...

Actually, I had a little fun with the paddle shifters on a loaner TSX a while back. Not enough to want to buy one, but it was fun.

Re: the cellphone-interrupting competition, I think I should get 0.5 points today:

"Mr. Big Business" almost missed his exit and got into my space because he was on the phone. After I yelled "Hey, FUCKER" inside my helmet loud enough to launch spit onto the visor, I honked and gave him the "hang up and DRIVE" gesture. Counts for something, right? :mrgreen:

So, I'm up to 1.5 for the week. Woo-hoo!

I'm not saying I ride strictly 'defensively' on the bike, just that I ride more defensively then in my car. I definitely agree with you that in many situations on the bike intentional aggressive moves are often the best option.

I suppose if I really think about it, by 'defensive' bike riding I mean shedding mph and covering the brakes while crossing an intersection (especially with right/left turners in the wings), or switching lanes to move away from blind alleys/entries...etc, things I generally don't consider much while caging. Even passing cars quickly so as to minimize time in their blind-spots is really a defensively (aggressively defensive?) move to me.

I'm the same way. In my car, I have been mentally trying to drive defensively. To remind myself that I'm not in a rush everyday so why drive like one. It makes driving less stressful. Lately, I've been doing well at driving calmly. But when I'm in a rush, I'm in a rush. I have been driving better since riding. I've picked up many many good habits, always looking around, looking at other drivers, predicting other drivers future decisions. etc.

But when I ride, it all depends when to be aggressive. If it's in heavy traffic, I am very melo. If it's just a regular street day, maybe I want to be in front of the pack and sometimes I don't mind being at the back. But overall, I'm only aggresive when it's safe to be aggresive. I have yet to be aggresive because of a driver's error. Not looking forward to that day.

yet women have a pair of panties, but only one bra...

um...HUH?

On a long trip on the interstate, when it's calm and traffic is rare I keep mellow, try to find a spot without people and slow down enough to stay there. However, when traffic picks up and that isn't an option, I consciencly go into an aggressive mode - high rpms, faster pace than surrounding traffic, more alert, passing cars using a right side lane position to minimize time in the blind spot. Stopping at lights so that the headlight (brights on) is pointed right at the side view mirror. Just generally try to dominate the space I'm in, while at the same time allowing for the fact that people may still be completely oblivious to my presence and try to merge into me. But that's exhausting over long periods of time, and once out of the city it's a relief to take it down a notch again. If you live in a city, you must just get used to it.

Maybe the best way to describe it should be aggressively defensive

In traffic, for me, riding confidently is everything. That is, making turn signals earlier than I really need to, making all my intentions obvious enough for cage drivers to read, taking up all the space I'm entitled to, bossing the vehicles around me if I have to... but being courteous and thanking cagers where it's due (usually for moving over a bit).

I suppose it's all about awareness and taking note/advantage of what I can see/sense (and cagers normally can't). For me, the recipient can decide if I've been aggressive or overly defensive. Sounds callous, I know, but it works for me.

Then again, on a quiet week-end morning :naughty.

On a long trip on the interstate, when it's calm and traffic is rare I keep mellow, try to find a spot without people and slow down enough to stay there. However, when traffic picks up and that isn't an option, I consciencly go into an aggressive mode - high rpms, faster pace than surrounding traffic, more alert, passing cars using a right side lane position to minimize time in the blind spot. Stopping at lights so that the headlight (brights on) is pointed right at the side view mirror. Just generally try to dominate the space I'm in, while at the same time allowing for the fact that people may still be completely oblivious to my presence and try to merge into me. But that's exhausting over long periods of time, and once out of the city it's a relief to take it down a notch again. If you live in a city, you must just get used to it.

You kind of get used to it. For me there was a little bit of "letting go" that I had to do. I realized that I couldn't make every car aware of me, and that I would just have to always have my head on a swivel. The "radar" teachings from MSF were very helpful. I use a similar technique when I'm caging, but it's mostly to avoid slowing down (hybrid driver, mpg all over the place!). The biggest difference in my technique when riding versus driving is that I always slow down at intersections, many times to ~5mph or so under the speed limit. It gives cars more time to see you, and (more importantly) shortens your braking distance a ton. On the interstate the biggest difference is in the car I don't really do much of anything. I set the cruise control for 13 over, turn the ac on, turn up the tunes, and just watch the road/stay in my lane. While riding bust interstates during the day I 'm kind of like Sundog, always looking for free open space - the only difference is I rarely pass on the right. While riding at night on open interstates I try and find a car moving at a decent clip and pace it about 1/2 mile behind.

I would say I'm more aggressively defensive than defensively aggressive.