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Old 08-29-2013, 10:27 AM   #1
Stevilknevil
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Angry 06 599 Problems

I posted in another thread, but someone told me to start my own, so here it is. I recently bought a 599 with 6k miles. I now have 8800 miles. I have never noticed a power decrease since i've owned the bike. The only thing I had noticed that when I got the bike, the fan would kick on at 205 degrees and it never went above 207. About two weeks later the bike has started to turn the fan on at 220 and temp doesn't get above 226. This is normal correct? I don't know why my bike was turning the fan on at 205. Anyway I had polished the headers after I got the bike and after about 1500 miles I noticed one header was a different color than the others. I put a temp gun on them at work and the discolored one (Cyl. 4) was 150-250 degrees cooler. I then checked for spark by just pulling the wire while running, and no change in feel of bike, or rpm, but it did have a strong spark. I pulled number one to see if there was a noticeable difference... and there was. I just checked that all the vacuum lines going to the carbs were ok and connected... they were. I also did a compression test on all four and they were all from 205 to 210 psi. The plug doesn't smell like fuel and is not wet, but when I emptied the bowl from number 4 carb with the tank off, and awful lot of fuel came out. I'm not sure how much is in the bowls though. I am thinking either i'm getting too much fuel in cyl 4, or not getting any fuel in the cylinder. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

I'd pull the jets and make sure they're not clogged.
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Yep, what jvdb said, sounds like no gas is getting to cyl 4. What's funny is you've been driving for 2800 miles on 3 cylinders without even knowing. What kind of gas mileage are you getting? You'll feel a difference when that 4th cylinder kicks in.

220 degs is the correct temp for the fan to come on. Strangely though my fan has never run. The temp has never risen over about 210. Wonder if yours, running on just 3 cylinders, is running hot.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Yeah, it is pretty funny. I noticed when I first got the bike it would never get above 206, 207 and I was getting around 45 mpg if I rode it like a grandma. Then I went out one night for a cruise; it was pretty hot and humid out.... I had the bike idling for a while in a parking lot, and when I got on the bike to leave the temp had risen to 226, and when I pulled out I stalled it for the first time ever. It was like it didn't have as much out of the gate or something. But I continued to ride it and it was still keeping up with if not beating my buddies Triumph Street Triple R. So I don't know what is going on, could it be the slow jet is clogged, but the fast isn't? I don't know much about carbs, but i'm going to go pull em off now. Oh, and the mileage now is around 38, but i've been riding it hard.

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Old 08-29-2013, 06:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Let us know what you find. I don't know much about carbs either so I'm interested to learn how it turns out. As for the temp maybe that's normal. I've never let my bike idle more than a few minutes.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Well I've got the carbs apart, and it seems like my assumption was correct. The slow jet had a bunch of crud in it. I didn't have a socket small enough to check the main jet, I'll have to wait till tomorrow. On another note, it looks like a lot of passage ways have crap in them, I'm going to take the carbs into work tomorrow and clean them the best that I can. I hope that solves my problem.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Good luck with getting things sorted out. I'm interested in the outcome since I was looking at an '04 waaaaaay out of town with similar mileage (5k) that has been "professionally tuned up in the spring". The low miles seem good until I considered the issues that come up from non-use such as those you're facing.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Well, no luck with cleaning the jets, although I haven't taken out the pilots because I don't have the tool. I probably should have started with checking the them. I also noticed that the main jets were different numbers, cylinders 1 and 4 are #110 and cylinders 2 and 3 are #112 jets, or maybe it was opposite. Does anyone know why there are two different jets in the carbs? Is this normal?
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

It's normal on bikes with pod filters, because the inner cylinders get a stronger vacuum, so they need smaller jets. I didn't think the 599 would be like that since it has an airbox.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevilknevil View Post
Well, no luck with cleaning the jets, although I haven't taken out the pilots because I don't have the tool. I probably should have started with checking the them. I also noticed that the main jets were different numbers, cylinders 1 and 4 are #110 and cylinders 2 and 3 are #112 jets, or maybe it was opposite. Does anyone know why there are two different jets in the carbs? Is this normal?
According to the fiche http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/f...ion_detail.asp and the service manual, outer cyls are #108 mains, and inner cyls are #110 mains. Slow jet #40.

Perhaps the inner cyls run a little hotter and Honda gives 'em a little more gas to cool 'em.

The slow jet has a much smaller oriface than the main jet. The slow jet usually clogs first. So, at idle, with a clogged cyl #4 slow jet you're running on three cylinders. Give it full throttle to do 130MPH and the main jet circuits in all 4 cyls kick in and cyl #4 is providing power. Of course, we're ignoring the needle jet circuit. Someone else can chime in about that.

Last edited by ride_red; 08-30-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ride_red View Post
According to the fiche http://www.ronayersmotorcycles.com/f...ion_detail.asp and the service manual, outer cyls are #108 mains, and inner cyls are #110 mains. Slow jet #40.

Perhaps the inner cyls run a little hotter and Honda gives 'em a little more gas to cool 'em.

The slow jet has a much smaller oriface than the main jet. The slow jet usually clogs first. So, at idle, with a clogged cyl #4 slow jet you're running on three cylinders. Give it full throttle to do 130MPH and the main jet circuits in all 4 cyls kick in and cyl #4 is providing power. Of course, we're ignoring the needle jet circuit. Someone else can chime in about that.


The main jet feeds the needle.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Do not believe the temp gun readings on polished metal. If you have 3 polished pipes and 1 with a coating (including discolored metal) they will read different at the same temperature. I won't go into blackbody radiation emission here, but you can prove this to yourself by polishing a part of a pipe and measuring the temperature at two points where it should be the same temp.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

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Originally Posted by ride_red View Post
Perhaps the inner cyls run a little hotter and Honda gives 'em a little more gas to cool 'em.
That's my understanding of why they did it.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Stevilknevil, you jinxed me dude! Bike ran fine yesterday, started it today and it seemed to be running on 3 cylinders. The pipe on cylinder #1 seemed to be the coldest so I pulled the wire and it ran the same. Have good spark. Not sure that I want to attempt carb cleaning myself. Guess I should order a carb repair kit and do all 4 while I'm at it. I'm picturing myself carrying a box of parts to the Honda shop in a few weeks & asking them to sort out my mess.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

I've been wondering if we've all been running on three cylinders? Everyone says that the Hornet is just a buzzy bike... but I don't buy it; I rode my buddies F3 and it is crazy smooth all the way up to redline. I've always wondered why this bike vibrates so much more, because it's essentially the same motor... possibly frame too?

Gregg it's not that difficult to take the carbs apart, I didn't even replace the float bowl seals. I just cleaned them up/reuse and they haven't leaked. If you have the manual it is a big help. I thought the hardest part of the job was the throttle cables, and the synchro springs.

On another note, at idle it smells rich. I know people have been saying it's the cat in these bikes that makes it smell funny... but do I even have a cat if it's not a California one? It looks like it has something in the exhaust, might just be a resonator. So I don't think the jet is clogged, I think it is running very rich in cyl 4. I think my air fuel ratios in all the cylinders are so off from each other as well, does anyone know a way to test this besides using a temp gun?

Also, does anyone know what the fuel cut off solenoid is for and if I need it or not?

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Definitely not 3 cylinder for me. I get 32 MPG. :T Maybe I should disable one lol.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Frame is completely different from the F3, from any CBR.

I wish I had more ideas on your carb problem, all I can say is that in my experience messing with carbs on a stock bike, every problem I've had after rebuilding is stupid little things I overlooked. I've always found something I missed the first time.

I try really hard not to do that anymore.

and If you think 599 carbs are tricky, try some goldwing carbs.



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Old 09-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevilknevil View Post
I've been wondering if we've all been running on three cylinders? Everyone says that the Hornet is just a buzzy bike... but I don't buy it; I rode my buddies F3 and it is crazy smooth all the way up to redline. I've always wondered why this bike vibrates so much more, because it's essentially the same motor... possibly frame too?

Gregg it's not that difficult to take the carbs apart, I didn't even replace the float bowl seals. I just cleaned them up/reuse and they haven't leaked. If you have the manual it is a big help. I thought the hardest part of the job was the throttle cables, and the synchro springs.

On another note, at idle it smells rich. I know people have been saying it's the cat in these bikes that makes it smell funny... but do I even have a cat if it's not a California one? It looks like it has something in the exhaust, might just be a resonator. So I don't think the jet is clogged, I think it is running very rich in cyl 4. I think my air fuel ratios in all the cylinders are so off from each other as well, does anyone know a way to test this besides using a temp gun?

Also, does anyone know what the fuel cut off solenoid is for and if I need it or not?

Yes, the hornet is buzzy. It's smooth up to 5k RPM's then gets very buzzy. Smooths back out around 7-8k RPM's.

I don't have any problem taking things apart, it's putting them back together correctly that could be an issue, especially carbs with jets & 1000's of pieces. I do have a Haynes manual & it says to replace the O-rings & gaskets. Did you not replace any parts? Maybe it's not necessary.

I think the fuel cut off solenoid closes the fuel supply when the ignition is shut off. Sounds like something you might need.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

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Originally Posted by Gregg599 View Post
Yes, the hornet is buzzy. It's smooth up to 5k RPM's then gets very buzzy. Smooths back out around 7-8k RPM's.

I don't have any problem taking things apart, it's putting them back together correctly that could be an issue, especially carbs with jets & 1000's of pieces. I do have a Haynes manual & it says to replace the O-rings & gaskets. Did you not replace any parts? Maybe it's not necessary.

I think the fuel cut off solenoid closes the fuel supply when the ignition is shut off. Sounds like something you might need.
Mine never smooths out, just gets worse. I know it says to replace o rings and things but I was not about to spend 25 dollars a piece for the float bowl gaskets. I've had the carbs completely apart twice now and still have no leaks, without replacing anything. I just cleaned all the corrosion off of everything and put it back together.
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: 06 599 Problems

Quote:
Yes, the hornet is buzzy
That's how they get their name.
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